ANIL LEWIS: Hi, my name is Anil Lewis. I’m the Executive Director of Blindness Initiatives for the National Federation of the Blind, the most transformative membership organization of blind Americans.
The unemployment rate of blind Americans has hovered around 70% for decades. The root remains the fears and misconceptions that people have around the capacity of blind people. And the lack of knowledge around the tools that blind people use to be competitive every day.
Through this series, we will be educating blind job seekers and employers about the variety of different careers that blind people are actively pursuing today. And the tools and strategies they use to be competitive on the job. We are hoping that this will help put a dent in the unemployment rate and create greater opportunities for blind people.
So let’s take a look at Where the Blind work.
NIKKI JACKSON: The National Federation of the Blind is committed to securing equity and opportunities for all blind people as it relates to employment. Blindness is not the characteristic that defines you. Each day we raise expectations because we know low expectations create obstacles between blind people and their dreams. It is our collective power, determination, and diversity that achieves aspirations for all blind people.
One of the ways we do that is through this webinar. I would like to welcome everyone to our Where the Blind Work webinar. Tonight, it's all about science, technology, engineering and mathematics, also known as STEM.
Welcome, everyone. We are so happy to have you all. I'm getting a little bit of feedback. All right, perfect. Thank you so much. Okay so a few housekeeping rules before we get started. So everyone, we are asking that everyone stay on mute, especially during our presenters' presentations this evening. We will try our hardest to make sure that there is a question-and-answer portion for participants to ask questions at the end. We will do some hand raising and also have the chat open at that time, so you will have multiple ways of asking questions.
Also, once we get our captioner set up, we will have the 1cap in the chat so you will be able to access captioning that way for those who need closed captioning. And the final piece of this is, if you do have questions and we don't get to your questions before the end of the webinar, you can email us at [email protected] and we'll make sure that your questions get passed along to our panelist this evening, and make sure you get a response.
I'll make sure to have that reminder at the end. So again, welcome to everyone and let's get started. And so we said tonight is all about STEM, science, technology, engineering and mathematics. Tonight, we have a fabulous group of folks who are ready to share all about their experience in this particular employment field.
Our first panelist is a recent graduate, a nursing graduate 2024 from California State University out of Northridge university. And this fabulous panelist's name is Jen Han. Everyone please give a warm virtual welcome to our first panelist.
JEN HAN: Hey, everyone. Thank you so much just for being here and hearing us out. My name is Jen Han, and a little bit about my academic journey. So I actually originally went to undergraduate at the University of California Los Angeles where I got my bachelor's degree in 2021. And I graduated with a degree in molecular cell developmental biology.
Then after that, I worked for about a year in in patient cardiology, so I worked as a telemetry technician. So that basically consisted of monitoring and looking at patient, what's called ECG's or EKG's, working with nurses and doctors to care for patients in that way, particularly patients who have cardiac issues. So that was a fun time, because it was right in the middle of COVID, so definitely learned a lot that way. And then after that, I ended up going to Cal State North ridge to get what's called an accelerated Bachelor of Nursing.
It's a 15 month program to get your BSN. The reason it's so quick is because I already had a bachelor's degree in something else before, so it cuts out a lot of the pre req type stuff. So kind of in that process, I always knew that I wanted to go into medicine. That was always something on my mind, but I just wasn't totally sure in what capacity I wanted to serve. And so kind of in that gap year is where I really learned what my career goals really wanted to be. And so the ultimate goal is to go on to get my nurse practitioner license after this and be a mid level provider.
If you don't know what a nurse practitioner is, they basically do everything that a physician does. They can prescribe, treat, diagnose patients. But right now, I just graduated nursing school, and so now I'm just studying for my licensing exam, and then I'll go on to work and see where I end up.
But as far some of the challenges I've faced as a blind person, I will say that there are fewer of us in medicine than I believe that there should be. I feel that there needs to be an increase in those of us who are in medicine, particularly those with disabilities. And so I'm hoping to be able to share this with you guys and to be able to advocate for that, because I've been a really strong proponent in that.
So kind of throughout the process of becoming a nurse in the last 15 months, it's been quite the journey. One thing I expected was obviously visual challenges in the industry, but to what degree, I wasn't totally aware of until I actually started working in the field. And so in nursing school, you do go through what's called clinical rotations where you get real world experience about what it's like to be a nurse.
And so you go to the hospital or different clinics, and you work alongside nurses. And so you treat patients, you help them with various things, you work with doctors, you work alongside the nurse to be able to understand what they do, and you work in various units as well.
So the first unit that I actually worked on was oncology, so cancer patients. And then the next unit I worked on is called medical surgical which is kind of like a catch all floor for various patients with various conditions. And then after that, you go on to acute care, which is the emergency department and the ICU. And then you go into work on outpatient settings, so things like primary care clinics, other specialty clinics as well.
And then your last semester of nursing school, at least for my program, you do what's called an independent preceptorship.
And that basically consists of, it's just you and the nurse. There was no assignments. That was kind of a blessing. Yes, no more care plans! Which is really lengthy reports on different patients. But it was just really a time to be able to independently practice with your nurse working alongside you, and to really get a taste of what it's like to be truly in the nursing profession on your own.
That's just a time for you to be able to learn, grow as a student, grow as a future nurse as well. So I've definitely learned a lot in that regard. But I think one of the most channeling things for me as a blind person is implicit bias. It was a really big thing I knew I was going to face, but I just wasn't sure what that looked like in the context of medicine.
And so unfortunately, I did face a lot of discrimination in my program and just in the industry as well. And so that's why I strongly believe that it's really important to advocate, raise your voice, start making some noise, because I believe that as blind people, we offer a really unique perspective in the industry of medicine. I think it's really, really sweet when patients look at you and they see you through themselves, right? Because they are also struggling with something chronic or something acute. And you in a way reflect that back to them.
And so when patients see someone on their medical team who looks just like them, that's rare. And that's really special. And so medicine to me is just such a special industry because it's a place where you meet someone at their most vulnerable, and you're really able to help them in that way. And I believe that there's a saying I once read, and it's a saying that says the currency of medicine is stories.
Every person in that room has a story. And it's remarkable to me, because it's been such a humbling experience to step into this field and to see that one person in one room is struggling with housing insecurity, and the next person in the other room has lived a life very well off and they've never known financial struggles in their entire life. And yet these two people are in the same situation.
And so, unfortunately, we know that illness and disease are not biased to who they strike. And so the field of medicine is such a special space to be able impact somebody's story. And you as a medical professional are able to do that in a way that can either shape their story for the better or for the worse.
And so as a medical professional, it's our oath to impact someone's story for the better. And sometimes I've learned that sometimes you can't fix the immediate problem, but at the very least, you can make their remaining time worth living for and worth memorable.
So beyond impacting your patient, you also impact family members as well in your direct care. And the community. And so it's a really awesome space to be able to advocate for things that you care about, public health issues that are prevalent in our society today, and also in general, the blind community. We see doctors all the time. And so it's an awesome thing to be able to be on the providing end, because I've lived my entire life being on the receiving end, going to doctors appointments, getting my eyes checked, you know? And so now I'm able to be on the providing end where people come to me for help and people come to me to get medical attention. And that's just an awesome, awesome thing.
So that's me in a nutshell. Thank you so much.
NIKKI JACKSON: Thank you so much, Jen. Very powerful, and I'm sure that our participants are going to have quite a few questions for you. Thank you for that. Moving on to our second panelist, I would like everyone to welcome Kevin Sisco out of New Jersey. Kevin currently works as an entrepreneur and software developer. So everyone give a warm virtual welcome to Kevin.
KEVIN SISCO: Hello. I hope everybody can hear me okay. I just kind of unmuted myself. But I'm Kevin Sisco, as stated. And I have a much well, not too much, but a shorter story than the last one you heard, that's for sure. See, I didn't go to college. After high school, I actually wasn't 100% sure what I wanted to do. I didn't learn well, actually I didn't learn until about the very end of my senior year that I wanted to go into the tech field, into computers.
So after college, I went to a trade school, and I got certified in computer programming with web technology. So I learned programming skills and I learned how to develop web pages and that sort of thing. And right after that, I did a few programming jobs here and there.
I tried the college thing. I tried going to a county college around here, and I realized it wasn't for me. I stuck it out for as long as I could. And it didn't work out. So I left and I said to myself, I need to kind of follow my passion and walk the path less traveled. And so I started working there were no programming jobs at the time, so I started working in IT in the security realm, removing viruses and spyware.
At some point along the way, I ended up on a local radio station where I talked on the morning show about how to keep secure and how to protect yourself online. And that ended because the station unfortunately changed hands, and there were some issues with that. But I still continued to work, and then I went into at the same time, I went into podcasting, and I did some podcasting about technology and so forth.
At the same time, doing a lot of IT, helping people get connected to the internet, basically solving issues that people were having with their network. I had a client who was hacked into, and I had to deal with that issue. And now I focus mainly on programming, mainly computer game development, computer games that can be played by the whole family, including the blind and visually impaired.
I want to show that, you know, it's not just a blindness thing. The whole family can enjoy these activities. And so I want to spread awareness about that. And that brings us really up to speed. And that's my story.
NIKKI JACKSON: Fantastic. Thank you so much, Kevin, for sharing. And I just want to say that I think it's important to note that your story is important, especially around your experience with attending college and giving it a go and then, you know, exploring a different avenue as it relates to your career. Because everyone's career and journey will look different. So I think it's important to note that every journey is not the same. And people can find success. You just got to figure out your own lane. So I really appreciate you sharing your story with us this evening.
KEVIN SISCO: Absolutely.
NIKKI JACKSON: All right. And finally, last but not least, we have our final panelist, Mr. David Hertweck out of oh, my gosh, I will tell you in one second. I have to actually look at my notes. Out of Missouri, who works as a Senior Principal Engineer for Bausch & Lomb. So welcome, David. We're happy to have you. David, is your audio working? I think David is still having some audio issues.
So while we try to figure out what's happening with David's audio, we will move on to some of the questions that I have for the panelists. And David, if you are able to unmute and get back on, I'll definitely give you absolutely give you the opportunity to share about your career journey.
Okay, so let's see. All right, so my first question, and either Jen, Kevin, either one of you can answer, both of you can answer. Just feel free to hop on in there. Are there any skills that you've developed because of your blindness that you can which have been excuse me, let me ask this again. Are there any skills or strengths you have developed because of your blindness that have helped you find success in your career?
Oh, David is that you?
DAVID HERTWECK: Hello, can you hear me?
NIKKI JACKSON: Yes! That's David, right?
DAVID HERTWECK: Yes.
NIKKI JACKSON: Perfect. Okay. So well, hold off on that question. David, I just introduced you, so you have the floor. You can tell us about your career journey.
DAVID HERTWECK: Yeah, sorry about that. I'm an engineer that can't get a computer to work, so I apologize for that.
NIKKI JACKSON: No worry, no worries. It's all good.
DAVID HERTWECK: Okay, so, I'm David Hertweck. It's great to hear a lot of young people out there. I'm kind of older. I did my college work, graduated from Washington University here in St. Louis way back in '86. Very little technology back at the time. We used plastic Braille embossed books. I got my undergraduate degree in mathematics. So did old time Braille for mathematics.
I left there and worked for the university for 10 years running a research lab. And at that time, I was working for the university, I got my master's degree in computer science. I left the university in '98 and went with a startup company for a couple of years that didn't start up. We did monitoring of large scale oil pipelines. We planted these little mini computers along the oil pipeline, and they called home and told people how the pipeline was doing.
It doesn't seem very advanced, but back in '98, putting little miniature computers on the internet was ground breaking. Then I left there and then been at Bausch & Lomb since 2000. So been there 24 years. And kind of a different aspect for the blind community, even though I'm blind. I design medical equipment for ophthalmic surgery. A big portion is used for cataract removal. Another portion of it is used for back of the eye diseases, like detached retinas, diabetic retinopathy, a problem with bleeding in the back of their eye. We get to play with all sorts of fun stuff, lasers, ultrasound.
Lots of math, but it's been a lot of fun over the years, you know, going to as the lady that said who is a nurse, going into an OR and seeing something you designed helping somebody else see better is why I'm still there.
Use a lot of technology to keep me going now that we have the benefits of all this cool stuff. You know, I work out in the lab, work with all sorts of the the most fun part is I get to work with lots of other engineers, electric engineers, mechanical engineers, system engineers. And together, we put these systems together and we have a factory on site that builds them. And we ship these systems all over the world.
I'm a big advocate for the STEM field, because now with the when I broke into it, way back in the '88, there was hardly any access technology. And nowadays, with the plethora of things that are out there, it's just I think the doors are open wide for people to get into these fields. It's a lot of work, as I'm sure the people that, you know, went to college and did all the work to get there, especially through nursing school.
I was horrible in biology, but to each their own. We need biologists and so forth. I am blessed with five kids and four grandkids. And it's been a lot of fun. If anybody has questions about engineering or STEM, I'm always happy to help and share some of the things I've learned over the 40 year career. So that's kind of me in a nutshell.
NIKKI JACKSON: Awesome, thank you, David. And listen, don't 40 years is a blessing, absolutely. And I will say I really appreciate that all of our panelists, all of you are at different stages in your career and can speak from three different perspectives. I think that's really important to note. So we appreciate the 40 year career that you've had. And you've helped to pave the way for folks who are looking to break into the STEM field now. So thank you for all of the work that you've done in your career. That's a proud moment. You should be very proud of 40 years.
So thank you all, panelists, for all of your stories. I really appreciate hearing about each of your journeys and experiences and how different they are. But yet, they're connected in a lot of ways. And I'm sure we'll really get into the connections as we go through these questions.
I'm actually going to change my question from the original question that I had. So my first question is, I personally can speak as someone who has been blind their entire life, and somewhat being deterred, right, from going into or not even it being an option, right? Let's not even say deterred. It being an option to explore a career in STEM.
So for you all, you decided regardless of other people's perceptions that you would take that step and find a lucrative career in this field. How did you deal with other's misconceptions around you being able to do your job as a blind person?
DAVID HERTWECK: I'll address that really quick. I've been kind of a geek my whole life. When I was 6, I remember getting up in the middle of the night and watching the Apollo missions and all that. But I would like to share one thing that happened to me that changed my life.
Freshman in college, taking second semester chemistry. The professor had a lab. Gosh, I was 20 at the time, just a kid. Said hey, I don't want a blind person in my lab. You take my class, I'm gong to flunk you. So pretty harsh words for a 19, 20 year old kid. So I did drop the class and then I vowed to myself I would never let that happen to me again.
I wasn't going to be a chemist anyway, but it was a real wake up call saying hey, you know, at that time, there was little or no recourse. Professors were kind of God. They just did what they wanted. But I think it was one of the best things that happened to me because I said you know what, because I'm going to do what I'm going to do. Instead of becoming a chemist, I became a mathematician.
KEVIN SISCO: Kevin Sisco here. I think I'll jump in. For me, it's about results. Especially being in the computer field until about everything is I/0, true/false. But also being an entrepreneur, it's all about results. You don't really have to play a lot of politics. But what I have to do is just go in there and prove them wrong. I could do the job, that's what mattered. It really is as simple as that.
I would like to give you a whole story about it, but if you can do the work, you can take away the excuses that people have to say hey, what are you doing here? You're blind. We don't want you here. For me, that's it. You show up. and you do what needs to be done and you do it right the first time so that nobody questions you or says get rid of that guy. We're going to replace that guy, you know? You just do it.
JEN HAN: So for me, I had to learn to be really resourceful and creative. So when I first entered the nursing program, I made it very, very clear to the nursing board that I was blind, and I told them that. I know from experience that there are a few of us in the industry. And so sometimes it's hard to sit in a room with five or six other people who ask you, okay, what can we do to help? And you don't really have an answer because you've never done this before.
And so it's very much trial and error. And so I think that kind of when you're walking into this field, you have to be very realistic with yourself, but you also have to know at the end of the day, you are the only one really cheering yourself on, and you have to have that grit and that resilience to be able to push through.
People will tell you all the time, you can't do it. Or why are you even in this industry? Or how are you going to even get through it? And sometimes it's okay to not know the answer to those questions of how I am going to approach this problem. But I made it very clear, it's not about making exceptions, it's about being creative.
And so use what you currently have, you know, the tools you've been using your whole life. But also branch out. Don't be afraid to bounce ideas off your family, your friends, your mentors, even yourself. Try something new. You never know what will work. So for me, it was really just being very grounded in what I wanted. And knowing why I wanted it and understanding the reason why I was really getting into this field in the first place, because it can be really deterring when people are constantly telling you what you can and can't do and putting you in a box.
You're the one breaking down those walls in order to make a change. So just being very firm about those things and also not being afraid to try new things. Like everyone else has said, prove them wrong because that's what you're there to do.
NIKKI JACKSON: I love that. And this idea of being resourceful, utilizing community, getting the job done, and sometimes having to pivot and still ending up doing what you want to do. I think those are really the key take aways from all that you all have shared. So thank you for that.
So my next question is, and y'all briefly touched on it during your presentations, but what types of access technology or alternative techniques do you use on a daily basis in your jobs? Or on your jobs?
DAVID HERTWECK: I'll go first again. You use what you need to use. If you're totally blind or not, you use Braille. I have a teeny bit of sight left so I use that. And I use enlargement. I use JAWS, I use NVDA.
I kind of view the iPhone as the access technology Swiss army life because you can aim it at a piece of equipment to read what's on the piece of equipment. As an engineer, I've designed my own stuff, like some scripts to access different tools that have hardware interfaces.
Sometimes you have to be creative and think out of the box. Sometimes it doesn't matter how you get the job done; you get it done. Sometimes you have to work longer or extra hours. If you want to be, you know, compete and have a great job, everybody has to do that from time to time. So I and third and fourth and fifth thinking out of the box and being creative and using every one of your abilities.
KEVIN SISCO: Yeah, let me just jump in. This is Kevin Sisco. I want to add to that. Yes, you need to think outside of the box. I agree with that 100%. I want to add to that. Nobody is going to judge you for being creative and using what you need to use, doing what you need to do. Sometimes I need to make development special scripts and such as a programmer to do what I need to do, a certain task. And it needs to be done.
If anything, people will be impressed. They've been impressed with my screen reading software. They think it's great. I use NVDA. I used to use JAWS a while ago. To be honest with you, I got sick of paying for something when I could get basically the same thing for free. Been a Braille reader my whole life. There's been times when I had to read off Braille. And you just do all of the above. And people see you as going above and beyond when you do that. So that's really very important. Don't shy away from that.
JEN HAN: Yeah. For me, it's very case specific. Just because in the hospital, you encounter so many different situations so you kind of have to be quick on your feet about it. But some general tools that I tend to use are, I use a portable Zoom software because I was constantly moving from unit to unit and hospital to hospital from different computers. So it's a software, it's a screen reader software that you're able to carry around with you through a USB.
So when you go into any computer, you can just plug the USB in, and it will operate on guest mode. So that was really, really helpful. That's called Super Nova through Dolphin USB. It took me a while to find that software. I don't know if it exists on the market. I need something portable, something easy, something that will work for me. So kind of to that end, I talked to people in the community to figure out if they have any ideas, because I didn't know about that software before until I actually really started reaching out and asking.
And then on top of that, I also use hand held magnifier, digital magnifier to look at different medication labels. And then I also use what's called, like, optic glasses. So they're like telescope glasses. I got them custom made to suit my vision specifically. And so it helps you see things really far away without getting close.
And so for me, I use those a lot for inserting IVs into patients, helping out with procedures, looking at, when I'm assessing a patient, looking at things I just slip the glasses on and look at things, like a wound for example. Assessing a wound and being able to look at it from a safe distance while also getting the visual information that I need.
I do have a little bit of functional vision left, but not much. So it's really about using what you currently have. And also using other senses, such as touch, has been really, really helpful, especially in procedures and such.
NIKKI JACKSON: Thank you for that, everyone. And I really appreciate hearing that you all use a multitude of tools to help you in your everyday routine at work. I think it's really important to have many tools in your tool kit. And really, two things I really liked what Kevin said about really leaning into those tools and not shying away. Like those the tools that you use are your tools. And so use them. That's what's going to help you.
Don't try to fake it until you make it. If you know Braille is a primary tool that you use, then that's what you're going to use on your job. If you know using a screen reader or using any other kind of access technology is going to help you make sure to lean into that and use that. I'm sure all of you all, not just our three panelists, but us as blind people, because things are inaccessible, we're forced sometimes to become innovative and creative. I think a lot of us are probably engineers by nature, just because we're forced to kind of make things accessible in a world that's not necessarily accessible for us.
So David, hearing you kind of talk about, you know, you're an engineer, you sometimes have to get creative and create your own tools. I think many of us do that in our everyday lives. I think that's definitely a valuable skill to have. So my next question is how has networking and having community helped you to find success in your field?
JEN HAN: I can take this one. We'll switch the order. So for me, it's been really, really helpful in the sense that you don't feel as alone in it. When I was talking with other medical professionals who are low vision or blind, I found that sometimes I was approaching it wrong. Sometimes I was hoping that I would talk to them in hopes of finding an answer to a current problem that I was dealing with.
But the reality is that everyone's vision is different, and everyone's story is different. And so their situation might not even match yours completely. And so sometimes I would go away feeling frustrated that okay, they you know, they seemed to have a lot more functional vision than me, so they were perfectly fine with, you know, for example, like being able to read the numbers on the blood pressure cuff. Or reading this label or what not. So their situation didn't match mine exactly.
And so sometimes that was frustrating. But, you know, when you realize that, okay, they may not necessarily share the same situation as you, but they definitely share in what it's like to be in that space as a low vision person or as a blind person in the medical field, you know, paving the way.
So I think there's a lot of value in that, in just community and listening. And so for me, it's been really invaluable just to be able to sit with someone who really understands it day to day, who really gets it. And just to be able to talk with them and, again, also ewe them as a sound board to bounce my ideas off of and ask them, what do you think of this? Because they're in the field, too. And they know the certain things that we have to navigate in terms of accommodations like, you know, making sure you're HIPPA compliant, respecting patient privacy pause when you're in that field, it's more than just you. It's also somebody's life at stake.
So you have to make sure that your accommodation and what you're asking for is obviously within reason, but also is going to help you better care for your patient. And so it's been really awesome to be able to connect with other people and see how they do things differently than you and also take ideas from them and tweak them a bit because, you know, again, not everybody is going to fit you specifically. And so that just comes with being creative.
KEVIN SISCO: Yeah, so I'm going to go now. So using people as a sounding board, definitely, because we have to remember to approach networking the same way that sighted people do very much. Because, you know, when you go into an industry, you understand your blindness is just merely a characteristic. When you're going into it, I don't go into it as a blind programmer. I go into it as a programmer. And then I say hey, by the way, I'm blind.
So I'm collaborating with people and saying what are some tips and tricks. And then I can take that and use it and then go back and figure out how I can adapt it to my needs, how I can utilize technology, you know, successfully and do it efficiently.
DAVID HERTWECK: Yeah, good points. I kind of went out it in a different way. I've always been kind of, I don't know, doing it on my own type person. I remember as a kid going to the Missouri School for the Blind for summer school and I don't know, back then I just didn't fit in for some reason.
But I learned a few years ago about the NFB's division of engineering, the NFB's division of computer science. And I wish I would have known about it years ago, because I do think collaboration is important. But in most of my career, I didn't go that route. I kind of you know, I was the only blind engineer I knew until I about four years ago I learned about the NFB and computer science and so forth.
I want to be known as Dave the engineer, Dave the grandpa not Dave the blind engineer or Dave the blind grandpa. But I do think there's a time and place where you collaborate with people and for a lot of things, why reinvent the wheel, you know? Just because I didn't do it most of my life, but I still think it's very important to reach out and collaborate.
If somebody has a better way to do it and they want to share it with you, that's awesome. And maybe along the lines, you learned a few things and sharing it is the best way, you know? Collaboration.
NIKKI JACKSON: Awesome. I love Dave the grandpa.
(Laughing).
And you're right. Community is really important. In a lot of case, sometimes we are the only blind people that we know of in our school, in our neighbor, just in our community in general. And so we do get used to kind of doing things on our own. But when we realize there are others like us, it does open up a whole new world and resources for us to access.
I think it's really powerful to know there are other blind people who may be on the same path as you, or even on a different path, but being able to connect with one another to help each other is really important. So thank you for that, everyone. My next question is, what unique challenges have you faced in your career? And how have you overcome those challenges? And any order. No particular order, y'all.
DAVID HERTWECK: I'll go. Back when I first started looking for a job back in the '80s, '88, '89, the interview would go great by phone. As soon as they met you in person, it was over. Lots and lots of rejection. Getting that first even for a sighted person, the hardest thing you'll ever do in your life, whether you're blind or not, is finding that first job.
Back in the late '80s, tons of rejection. Finally broke in and get a job and you do well, then you can kind of live or die by your reputation. But for me, the hardest part is, I never had a lot of vision, but it is degenerative. So when I take the next step down, can't do something the same way again. Have to go back and be innovative and creative.
What I could do a month ago, maybe I can't do this month in the same way. So I think for those of us that do have a degenerative condition, sometimes you just have to say oh, well, back to the drawing board. Let's figure this out. I think that's an area where collaboration with people can really help.
JEN HAN: I can go next. So for me, a unique challenge is that the field of nursing in particular can be very visually demanding. And so, you know, when you step into this space, you kind of have to address the fact that you're going to be doing a lot of things that look different to what's usually done.
It's really just challenging the traditional beliefs held in nursing, that have been held for years and years and years. And so it's unfortunate that sometimes when you go in and you do something different, people don't always like that.
It's kind of what I mean by being realistic with yourself is that, particularly in this field, it was hard for me to be able to really feel at ease with everything, just because there was a lot of implicit bias and discrimination that I faced throughout my program where professors would say, like, oh, we are questioning your ability to provide safe and competent care to your patient.
The only thing that was an issue for them was obviously the fact that I was blind. And, you know, when I asked them okay, what proof is there, you know, to demonstrate that, they couldn't come up with anything. There was no real proof. It's not like I made a medical error or, you know, there was an issue at hand.
And so it's really just about going into that space and realizing that, you know, you are one of a few kind of paving that way and challenging those beliefs that have been held for so, so long. And really, just going into it with an open mind and understanding, really valuing the unique perspective that you hold as a blind person. Because again, like I said, you've been a patient your whole life in a way. And so you get it.
This is kind of metaphorical, but you see things that sighted people don't see. And so it's just paying attention to the value that you hold and what you can contribute and holding on to those things and really just, again, going to this field remembering why you're in it and really just thinking outside the box in order to achieve what you want to achieve.
NIKKI JACKSON: Kevin, did you want to take a shot at this question? If not, we can okay. All right. So really quickly, we have a little bit of time. We're going to open the chat and open hand raising very quickly. We may be able to get at least two questions in before our time is up. And then I have one more question for our panelists.
So if our wonderful host Lia can open the chat. And we have a hand raised. So if we could get that person unmuted. Please limit your question to one question, just because we want to make sure we respect everyone's time. We're getting to you right now. So give us a second.
LIA STONE: I just sent a request to unmute.
SPEAKER: I don't know why it says iPhone. It still pops up on Zoom at iPhone. Sorry for any inconvenience or confusion there. My question is for Jen. You just lowered my hand, okay, cool. So my question is for Jen. How did you get started in all of this? And what advice would you have for somebody that is completely blind like myself. I don't have any usable vision. I am definitely on the East Coast and kind of approaching early 40s, to be 100% honest.
So what would you suggest? You know, I have taken vitals before using a talking blood pressure cuff and things like that on my own and my mom. My mom is a nurse. I just kind of wanted to know, like, the very basics of how someone like me could get started or if you think that having no usable vision, not being able to read those labels like you were describes and things like that. So I just wanted to know if that was doable or if that's a little lofty? Or what? So that's what I wanted to know, kind of how you got started in all this. So thank you very much for taking my question. I appreciate it.
JEN HAN: Your name is Tessa? Nice meeting you. I got started really it started really in undergrad when I was studying molecular bio. I knew I wanted to go into medicine. The original plan was actually to go to med school. That's why I took the gap year, but I decided to go into nursing instead because it aligned more with my career goals.
And so kind of how I got started is, to be honest, when I first entered the nursing program, I had very, very limited ideas of how I was going to get through it. And so it was really trial and error. Like I said before. And so as for it's kind of just like when I approached the situation, I thought through it and said okay, what can I use currently to my ability, right?
You said that you don't have any functional vision at all? I would say it is possible, because I have a friend who is I think she's totally blind. And she's in med school right now. And so it is possible, but you have to understand that it might take you a little longer, unfortunately. But at the end of the day, you will get to your goal. And just for, like, practical reasons, so for example, the medical record system is called EPIC. That's one of the EMR's that we use to chart patients.
It's inaccessible for screen readers. And so what my friend has done, which I found really creative, and I find of dabbled into that as well. She actually has someone write out well, she will actually when she's with a patient, she will actually just type out on a document everything that she goes through with the patient. And then later on, someone else will actually input the information that she's typed out into the actual chart.
Another friend of mine, for example, is, I think she's very close to totally blind, and she is also in the medical industry. She has an assistant. And so that person helps her out, reads her labels, helps her out with certain visual tasks. And so it's very doable. You just have to be, like I said, very creative, very grounded in what you want.
Don't underestimate the power of, you know, the accommodations provided to you through the ADA. So you can use, like, a human reader, for example. Unfortunately for me, I fought for that, but my school for whatever reason did not allow it, which is a whole other story. So I kind of had to be creative with that.
But again, it is doable. And so those are just two practical examples to keep it short.
NIKKI JACKSON: Thank you so much for that, Jen and Tessa. Thank you so much for your question. So we are almost at time. But I wanted to pose a question to a final question to our panelists. And it's kind of a two parter. So what advice would you give to our participants in the Zoom right now or anyone who may be listening to this webinar who is interested in exploring a career in STEM?
And then the second part of that is what advice or what would you say to a counselor or teacher or even employer when a blind candidate or consumer or student comes to them saying, I would like a job in STEM, or I would like to pursue a study in STEM or whatever the case may be. What would you say to each of those groups?
KEVIN SISCO: All right, I'll go ahead. So what advice would I give? Well, I think if somebody wants to get into the STEM field who is blind or visually impaired, I would say don't let your lack of vision hold you back. If this is something you're passionate about, then figure out a way to achieve that goal.
It may be, you know, talking to other people in the field, doing some research on your own. What's the first step, what's the second step? And go from there. So that's the advice. What would I say to a counselor? I would say the least you could do the least anybody could do is give that person a chance. Let them see what they can do. Let them show let them prove themselves.
Really, we do, as human beings, we do owe it to one another to cut each other some slack and say, let's put them out there and let them let them try it out.
NIKKI JACKSON: Thanks, Kevin. Anyone else want to answer before we close tonight?
DAVID HERTWECK: I would like to jump in real quick. What I would tell somebody is if you want to go into STEM, it's a lot of fun. And I found that through my career, once you get the knowledge and stuff that people in science, technology, especially at universities, at least I found as engineers and so forth, are very, very open minded. They don't really care how you do it, as long as you do it and get it done.
But don't you cannot be afraid of working if you want to go into STEM. You want to buckle down and get the knowledge through course work and colleges. If you don't do well in a college environment, you don't do self study or whatever it takes. But there's a core set of knowledge, basic math. I don't know about the medical field, but engineering, you've got to have calculus. You've got to have differential equations. Those are some pretty scary things. But if it's something you want, make it happen. But don't be afraid to work.
And what I would tell a counselor, I would reiterate, be open minded, give them a shot. Evaluate them as if they didn't have a disability.
I have a lot of younger people working for me on my team right now. They're right out of college. The way I get to know them is I give them a problem and see the questions they ask me. You can learn a lot about a person about what questions they ask in return. It kind of gives you some are silly questions; some are not silly questions. No question is a bad question.
And that's what I would encourage young people. Ask questions. I drove probably my college professor and high schoolteachers crazy. I don't get this. What's an ellipse? I don't understand. Then going after school and work. You get a good teacher, they want to put the time in. If they find you're truly interested in your subject. But ask questions. Ask, ask, ask.
JEN HAN: Yeah, to reiterate that as well, I guess that's advice to employers and counselors is don't be afraid to ask questions likewise back to us, back to whoever. Because you don't learn until you actually ask. And it's better that you ask something that you might be embarrassed to ask than to make an assumption, because that's where problems start to arise.
And so the more you know and the more you inform yourself, the better you both will be. And remember that you're the one who really sets the environment for that space. And so I encourage employers and counselors to really make sure that anyone who is blind or low vision who comes into their work space knows that they are valued and an integral part of their team.
And then just advice for someone interested in pursuing STEM, I think two things. The first thing is to use what other people perceive as your greatest adversity as your biggest asset. Because it is. And then the second thing is that the difference between someone who doesn't accomplish a goal and someone who does is that the latter person took the initiative. And that mind sound really simple in practice, but it's hard to want to take that first step and get it done.
But once you take that first step, you're halfway there, you know? And so you get it done. And yeah, just remember to always remember your why.
NIKKI JACKSON: Well said. Well Jen, Kevin, David, I want to thank you for your time this evening. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. I'm sure that you left many people on the Zoom ready to go out and see if STEM is the field that they want to explore for a career.
So thank you all. Just a quick note that our next Where the Blind Work will be held on August 22. This will be all about remote work. So we'll have panelists on giving us the deets and all the ins and outings of being a remote worker. So we hope to see you all there, and everyone, have a good night. Thank you, all.