Announcer:
Welcome to the Nation's Blind Podcast presented by the National Federation of the Blind, the transformative membership and advocacy organization of blind Americans. Live the life you want.
Melissa Riccobono:
Hello and welcome to the Nation's Blind Podcast. I am Melissa Riccobono, and I am here with my intrepid, often imitated...
Anil Lewis:
Wow.
Melissa Riccobono:
Never duplicated, co-host.
Anil Lewis:
Intrepid. Yes, yes, that's me. I'm trying to remember because that comes from Aladdin.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, the genie.
Anil Lewis:
Overwhelming awesome power, itty bitty living space (Anil and Melissa laugh). That's me.
Melissa Riccobono:
Do you have an itty bitty little living space?
Anil Lewis:
No, I'm very comfortable with my living space, so I wouldn't call it itty bitty. Yeah, so I also don't have overwhelming power either, so I find a balance, I guess (laughs).
Melissa Riccobono:
And your name is a Anil Lewis, by the way.
Anil Lewis:
Oh, did I say that. Yes, it's not Alladin. Yes, my name is Anil Lewis (chuckles).
Melissa Riccobono:
And it's not genie either. Genie didn't have a name, right? It was just genie? Yeah, I think that's right.
Anil Lewis:
Yes, that is correct.
James Boehm:
I was wondering why you were wearing that weird outfit.
Anil Lewis:
(Melissa laughs) who is that busting on our podcast, I tell you, we get some rowdy guests on here, Melissa (James laughs).
Melissa Riccobono:
We do. But I think maybe we should just have that person introduce himself right away. And we're talking about mental health and obviously part of mental health is enjoying (chuckles) what you do and (Anil laughs) obviously this person's just jumping right in. So this is great.
Anil Lewis:
He's ready.
Melissa Riccobono:
He's ready. So mystery voice, why don't you introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little bit about you.
James Boehm:
Yes, hi, my name's James Boehm. I am a licensed practicing counselor in the state of Tennessee. I graduated with my master's at Peabody College of Vanderbilt, so I've been a therapist for a little over five years.
I live in the Nashville area and was originally born in Germany, was an army brat and ended up in United States when my dad retired from the military. And so I've been here ever since and been blind fifteen years and since then have learned to navigate this new chapter of life and all the blessings and opportunities that have come with that, like Anil's jokes (Anil and Melissa laugh) and yeah, so I'm glad to be here today.
Anil Lewis:
I love it. James is fearless. Don't you know I have control over this microphone? I can mute you (James and Melissa laugh). Sorry.
James Boehm:
You wouldn't be the first one.
Anil Lewis:
I'm glad that we have some balance here with some real down home, real reasonable person who has professional ethics and expertise that also loves me. LaKisha Holmes is joining us (LaKisha laughs). And LaKisha, you want to introduce yourself? We go way back. LaKisha came up through some early youth programs in the Federation down here in Georgia, so very proud of her.
LaKisha Holmes:
Thank you. That's my grandpa right there (laughs).
Melissa Riccobono:
Aww.
Anil Lewis:
And I got some great grandkids too.
LaKisha Holmes:
You do. Yeah, they're getting old (Anil laughs). So my name is LaKisha. I am currently in San Antonio, but I was raised in Georgia. Like Anil said, I am a licensed professional counselor associate, so what that means is I'm still working towards full licensure as an LPC. I should be done with my hours by the end of next year. God willing. I'm ready though. So hopefully sooner (laughs).
James Boehm:
You got this.
LaKisha Holmes:
Thank you. I work here in San Antonio at a private practice doing mental health therapy with individuals from kids, I think my youngest client is eight, all the way to the older clients. And then I also am a group facilitator for a company called Charlie Health, which is based out of Montana. So I do group facilitation with all ages. I get to work from home most of the time, so it's a good thing sometimes. Sometimes I need to get out of the house (LaKisha and Anil laugh), but I'm a woman that wears many hats. I also have a podcast called Babies Down Bottles Up. We actually got...
Anil Lewis:
It's a great podcast.
LaKisha Holmes:
Thank you.
Anil Lewis:
It is a great podcast. Yes.
LaKisha Holmes:
We got our LLC back in June, so we're official now and we just got syndicated. We're going to be aired on MindsEye Radio starting this Saturday. So we are growing.
Anil Lewis:
You guys have merch? We have to get us some merch (LaKisha laughs) for the Nations Blind Podcast.
Melissa Riccobono:
Oh my gosh, merch. That's awesome.
LaKisha Holmes:
Yeah, we haven't sold any, but we do have some that we have (Anil and LaKisha laugh).
Anil Lewis:
You guys are promoting it like y'all having great sales. Yeah, fake it 'till you make it.
LaKisha Holmes:
We're just trying to see how people like it before we...
Anil Lewis:
Fake it 'till you make it, okay (LaKisha laughs).
LaKisha Holmes:
We're just trying to make sure people like it to buy it. Merch, you don't really make a lot of money off of merch, but we have had some sponsors sponsor our podcast, so it's going good.
Anil Lewis:
Alright, enough about other podcasts.
LaKisha Holmes:
Sorry, sorry about that.
Anil Lewis:
That's enough (LaKisha and Anil laugh).
Melissa Riccobono:
And you have children, how old are you children?
LaKisha Holmes:
Oh my goodness. I have a daughter named Anaya, she's six and my son, his name is Zane, he'll be eight next month and I'm having a really hard time with that because he's just getting old.
Anil Lewis:
Eight years old, he don't need you anymore.
Melissa Riccobono:
And you're staying the same age Of course.
LaKisha Holmes:
Yeah, I haven't changed.
Melissa Riccobono:
He's just getting old.
LaKisha Holmes:
I'm still 29 (laughs).
Melissa Riccobono:
Right. Great, great. Exactly.
Anil Lewis:
So we're going to start calling you Cleopatra (LaKisha laughs), the queen of denial (LaKisha laughs). Thank you. Thank you ladies and gentlemen.
Melissa Riccobono:
Okay, well let's get back to the podcast. Our topic today is mental health. Given all the recent government shutdown, the mass layoffs of federal employees, we could go on and on this and many other things that are happening in the world could cause stress and anxiety for people. And so we invited these counselors to talk and provide encouragement and tips on how we can all improve our mental health. And so I really look forward to this.
I am a former counselor, I'm a former school counselor, but I did go through a program much like both of you. And so even though I haven't been a counselor for a while, I definitely feel all of you. And I definitely remember when I was working with people and for me, I became a counselor because I was babysitting for a little girl whose parents were getting divorced and I just wanted to talk to her and help her feel better.
And then I was able to come home or I came home from that and I said, "Oh, that's what I want to be. I want to be a counselor." And that was in seventh grade and that stuck with me. We're going to pause for a quick message and then we're going to come back and we're going to hear why LaKisha and James decided to become counselors.
Anil Lewis:
Before we go to the message, I want to talk about my counseling experience.
Melissa Riccobono:
Oh, of course. I'm sorry.
Anil Lewis:
I have received lots of counseling. So let's go to a message (Anil and Melissa laugh).
Melissa Riccobono:
You're listening to the Nation's Blind Podcast.
Message:
Are you considering an end of year contribution? Now is the time. Thanks to a challenge grant from Humanware, during October, November and December, you can double your dollars and help blind people to choose the lives they want. Celebrate by visiting nfb.org/donate or you can call 410-659-9314, extension 2430.
Melissa Riccobono:
Alright, welcome back. We are talking about mental health and by the way, Anil said he's received a lot of counseling. I've also received counseling for sure, and I am guessing we will probably talk a bit about self care later in this episode, but I'm guessing LaKisha and James have possibly been in that position as well. But LaKisha, let's start with you. What things led you to decide to become a counselor?
LaKisha Holmes:
I was actually having a talk with one of my groups that I facilitate. We were just having to talk about this two hours ago. I was telling them that I became a counselor on accident and they told me that was crazy to hear. they never heard anyone say that before.
Anil Lewis:
Yeah I can't wait to see how you describe this (LaKisha laughs).
LaKisha Holmes:
Okay. I applied for my master's degree and I had all intentions of going in. It was counseling, sorry, clinical rehabilitation counseling. That's what my master's is in. And so I was going with all the intentions of becoming a vocational rehabilitation counselor, working with blind individuals. That's what my background is. I've done that for a long time.
So helping people like myself live a more fulfilling life. And I took one class that whole time that I was in school about disabilities, like one class. So 95% of my degree was based off of mental health and I fell in love with it. So when I started to do my internship, I did a lot of it in the classroom working with young adults who had multiple disabilities. And so I was begging my supervisor, please let me get some counseling in. I want to do some sessions.
And so she gave me five or six clients and then I just never turned back and I love it. It's different. It can be overwhelming sometimes, but I just love helping people. And then I also can use the techniques that I've learned in school on my kids (Melissa laughs) because my son, boys are little, I don't have any brothers, so I have no experience with boys.
Anil Lewis:
Boys are easy. Yeah.
LaKisha Holmes:
Ummm, yeah let's go with that (laughs).
Anil Lewis:
Just buy one pair of jeans. They can wear them from two to eight years old (LaKisha and Melissa laugh).
LaKisha Holmes:
No, my son, he's four foot three, he's going to be taller than me probably in the next year and a half. And he has these big emotions. He's super in tune with his emotions and so I'm trying to teach him how to express them better. Sometimes he struggles with that. And so I'm like, that's a win-win for me (laughs).
Anil Lewis:
And that is real. I agree with you not to make light of it. It is real. I can reflect back in those transitional years, it's very difficult. He's not even a teenager yet. Wait until becomes a teeenager.
LaKisha Holmes:
Don't tell me that. Because my daughter's not even a teenager yet and she's already giving me attitude and I'm like, I can't deal with two of them (laughs).
Anil Lewis:
Well, she is your daughter (Melissa laughs).
LaKisha Holmes:
That's true (laughs).
Anil Lewis:
So James (Anil, James and LaKisha laugh).
James Boehm:
Yes.
Anil Lewis:
How about you (laughs)?
James Boehm:
Well, this was also not a field that I had planned on going into. I was an automotive for styling business for over seventeen years. I was customizing cars and trucks and everything, reflecting people's styles and what they drove.
And when I went blind suddenly fifteen years ago, one of the things that as reflecting back that helped me through that transition, through that grief and loss through that quick life change was my mental health was the, just as you go to a heart doctor, you go to a lung doctor, like my mind, I needed a mind doctor.
And going through that process is what helped set me up and set a foundation for me to do other things, which is then learn how to be and adapt as someone with a visual impairment and being able to learn Braille and mobility and technology.
If I would've jumped into that without first having that foundation of my mental health, it would've been very, very difficult if not impossible. And so as I was trying to figure out what this next chapter in life was going to be, I reflected on that. And I remember sharing my story in a group, in a group and a gentleman came up to me and he said, "You know what?"
He said, "I have thought about and almost attempted suicide three times in my life." And he said, "I've heard your story." And he said, "You've given me a whole new perspective on life." And he said, "That's not going to happen again." And I still think about that guy. And so it kind of hit me because as I was doing assessments in this rehabilitation place, they want to see how good I could screw bolts. I don't want to screw bolts, I want to be with people.
I want to be creative. That was what I did with cars and trucks and so forth. And I like technology, but I don't want to be behind a computer all day. And so I thought about for some reason that story came up and I was like, if I could help people avoid some of the mistakes that I made. Help them to find those resources and to get the counseling that they need early, unlike myself where I had to wait almost a year and a half to get because of social security and all the other hoops and loops you have to jump through.
Then this second chance of life that I'm here, this new chapter is my purpose. And so I ate the words that I said when I was seventeen and graduated high school. I said, "I am done with school. I'm never coming back" (Melissa laughs). And when I asked them, "So to be a counselor, what does that entail?" They're like, "Well, you're looking at about seven years of college."
And it's like, "Oh my gosh." So here we go. But I'm glad I did it. And now I have a private practice here in Nashville, Alliance Counseling. I also work at a nonprofit counseling center outside of Nashville. And I just love being able to work with people of all different backgrounds. And one of my specialties is with people with disabilities because, so you guys probably know that's a challenge, is to find a therapist that understands and knows how to work with someone.
Anil Lewis:
Provide counseling that doesn't try to make it focus on disability. You're absolutely right. So we have two mind doctors here, Melissa (LaKisha laughs).
James Boehm:
Yeah, that's one of my roles here at this one counseling center is I'm the accessibility coordinator. So from the ground up we've created this program, which all aspects of counseling is accessible. And so I've just been really excited to be able to do that because it's so important.
Melissa Riccobono:
That is wonderful. I'm going to skip a question. We're going to come back to it becasue we are going to talk a lot about ways to relieve stress and that type of thing, but I like this question. So we're going to go from here for just a minute.
Anil Lewis:
Melissa's in charge.
Melissa Riccobono:
I am in charge. I'm taking charge (LaKisha laughs).
Anil Lewis:
Yeah, I love that. No, no, you're in charge.
Melissa Riccobono:
Okay. So this one actually made me think a little bit about my counseling, and it was a long time ago. The question is, can you give an example of a client who you had a great deal of impact on and how you helped improve their mental health? And that's a pretty big question.
So you can break it down in any way that you see fit. And while you're thinking about it, I just come back to the very first client I ever had, the very first formal client I ever had because I like you, LaKisha was practicing lots of stuff, not on my kids because I didn't have any when I was going to school to counsel, but I was practicing it on my friends.
Anil Lewis:
LaKisha wasn't practicing on her kids (LaKisha and Anil laugh).
Melissa Riccobono:
Well, I do do a lot on my kids now, but (Anil and LaKisha laugh) I'm just saying I practiced a lot on my friends and on other people. Once a counselor, always a counselor, right? And psychology...
James Boehm:
How does that make you feel?
Melissa Riccobono:
Right, exactly (Lakisha and Anil laugh). Exactly. Anyway, my first real client, I was very nervous because of course I'm a blind counselor and this client was going to be a sighted client and I just thought, "How is this client going to feel about me being her counselor? What is this going to be like?" I mean, not only was I nervous because I'm just this brand new counselor with this first time client and your program's a very nerve wracking place sometimes when you're becoming a counselor.
It's quite a journey. But when I walked in and started talking to this young woman, she didn't jump up and run away when she saw me come out with my guide dog (laughs), and she went with me back into the waiting room and this and that.
Turned out she was a woman who, part of the reason she was coming to counseling was because she had body image issues. And later I thought how fascinating and how interesting and how number one, it really didn't seem to matter. All she really wanted was help. And I was able to hopefully provide that help.
I mean, it was brief therapy. It was five sessions. I don't know that I, hopefully I planted some seeds. But I thought it's really interesting because the one thing that she's worried about is people looking at her and judging her and she is looking at herself and judging herself because of what she perceives she looks like. And I'm a person...
Anil Lewis:
Organic, safe space right there.
Melissa Riccobono:
Who's a counselor that absolutely can give her a safe space because I can't see her. And I have always been really, I don't know, I feel like God works in mysterious ways sometimes (chuckles). I hearken back to that and I think, you know what? Blindness can really be an advantage.
Or anything that anybody can say might be a disadvantage in the right situation could really be an advantage. So how about you two? Do you have stories about clients who you feel like you've had an impact on or any special story you'd like to share?
James Boehm:
Well, I think about this one guy named Anil I was working with. If you work with him, you'd probably go back to working with cars. Yeah, I'm back in the automotive industry now. I don't know why I'm on here. I put a pinstripe on Anil. But that was interesting that you said that because I have found clients that have said that.
They said, "I know this is a safe space, but," I had one client, she said, "I don't have to put my makeup on. I don't have to do my hair. I don't have to dress up a certain way." She said, "I can just come here and be me."
Anil Lewis:
Interesting.
James Boehm:
And she said, "This is the first time I've gotten to feel that way." I had another client, he's like, "I don't have to worry about what I look like or if I'm sitting up straight." And he said, "I take my shoes off and cross my legs and put it in the seat." He said, "I don't know if you knew that or not, but I just feel so comfortable." I said, "That is so great and I'll get your feet out of my seat" (LaKisha laughs).
I've definitely experienced that and I've seen that how it makes people comfortable because a lot of people are judged by what they look like. And so to be able to have a space to not be judged by that can actually open up doors.
Melissa Riccobono:
How about you, LaKisha?
LaKisha Holmes:
I've had a lot of clients that I can think of because I've worked in middle schools doing mental health. I've worked with elementary school kids. And so just with them, having them come to me when they're having a problem makes me, it feels good because they know that they have a safe space with me. It caused some conflict with some teachers, but the most important thing to me was the fact that the kids felt safe coming to me.
And then today I actually had something happen. I had a client come into groove and she said, "I had a really rough weekend, but then I thought of you and it made me feel better." And those type of comments actually really make me feel like I'm doing something because sometimes I feel like I'm not making a difference in my client's life.
I say things to my clients and I'm thinking as I'm saying it, "Who am I? Who am I to tell them what I think?" And then they're like, you know what? I'm going to try it. And they come back and they're like, it went well. That makes me feel like I'm doing something to help them. So definitely I had a lot of those experiences.
Anil Lewis:
And I would imagine that you probably have impacted some of your clients in ways that you don't even recognize. I know when I went to counseling for the first time, in a real way, I'm combating two things. One, really being kind of a faith-based person thinking that God will fix it. I don't need to go to a professional. And then I don't know whether you guys know, but there's a stigma, black males, our whole machismo kind of thing.
So I had to fight both of those just to go to see Dr. Littlejohn and she handled that so well. But it was dealing with my divorce and my pending custody suit with my son. And the thing that really marvels me about that, and my biggest fear was around those biases that are going to be introduced. But she had me be so introspective around the way that I was looking at things and helping me shift my paradigm around it. And even though the outcome I think was very successful, I did end up getting custody of my son as a result through all that process.
And she helped me keep a level head in order to be successful in doing that. I don't think that the predisposition for people to think, "Well blind people shouldn't have kids," I don't think that entered into her mind. It definitely didn't impact the quality of the counseling services she provided, but I don't even know if she even recognizes how phenomenal those sessions were for me. And subsequently for Amari.
James Boehm:
Thinking about one of the first days I had this one client that I met with and they were dealing with some severe depression, anxiety and chronic pain, and they had had an accident that required surgery and then a lot of medical trauma with doctors and so forth, and then had to have another surgery. And it was just really hard sessions and it was, I think someone had mentioned, "am I really helping this person?" It was hard.
And to this day I still work with this client and they actually gave their testimony and it's online, but one of the things that they said later was that they were looking for a reason to give up. And when they met me and my guide dog Bogey, who they fell in love with and Bogey was so loving, affectionate, she said, "My reason to live was to come to that next session and then to come to that next session."
Anil Lewis:
I sure hope you're giving Bogey his compensation for counseling review (LaKisha laughs).
Melissa Riccobono:
Lots of scratches (laughs).
James Boehm:
Milkbones. Life supply of milkbones.
LaKisha Holmes:
And I think as a blind therapist, I remember, just remember going through my program we had to do to counsel our classmates. And so after we would do that, we had to get critiqued by our professor and our fellow classmates. And so one thing that sticks with me that my professor is that he goes, "I think that you're going to be a great counselor because you do really well with reading people's tone. I know you can't see them.
You are not able to catch the nonverbal things, but the way that you go into your sessions and you're like, 'I see you sound like something's going on. What's wrong?'" He's like, "A lot of counselors don't have that ability to do that." And he's like, "I think that's going to be really powerful for you." And that just stuck with me because I can, as blind people, we pay attention to voice and it really does help with therapy.
James Boehm:
Yep. Person's looking down. If they're looking away, we can tell those things. I was working with a couple doing exercise and they were supposed to share reflection with one another and the husband said something and I said, "That was really good. Now I want you to look at your wife and say that."
Anil Lewis:
Then they said, you really can see (LaKisha and Melissa laugh).
James Boehm:
Can't see his face, but I knew he was looking at me. I am like, "Don't tell me. Look at her, tell her." So we notice those things and it can be very impactful.
Melissa Riccobono:
I think that's part about being a counselor too. Sometimes we won't know and we just have to plant the seeds and just hope that we make a difference and we might not be making a difference right at that time because of course it takes two, it takes the counselor, but it also takes the person that has to be ready to receive that message or that help or whatever it is that you're offering. And I think sometimes it takes a little while or can take a little while.
So anyway, I think that's really important. I love the way the conversation has gone, but let's get back to the topic of the episode, which is to try to help people relieve stress and anxiety in this world where it seems like stress and anxiety are just becoming the norm, are kind of foisted upon us, if that makes sense.
From the time we're in high school, it's you got to get the good grades, you got to go to college, you got to do this, and then you're in college and you got to, whatever it is. It's kind of always that next thing. So what are your tips to truly try to slow down to be present in the now, to quiet those voices in your head to allow yourself to have that time, to take that time to breathe and not feel guilty or when stressful things happen, to maybe put them into perspective. Do you have each, I don't know, maybe your top two or three quick techniques that you can give to people?
LaKisha Holmes:
What I usually do, so the first thing I always remind clients when they're coming to, I mean everyone's coming to therapy or to counseling to work on something, and then when you get in there, you find other things that you need to work on. But I think the most important thing that I tell my clients is to be kind to themself and to give themself grace.
And then I always tell them, no one's going to take care of you like you do. You have your support system, you can lean on them when you need, but you are the one who knows what you need and you are going to have to be that one to give that to yourself. So be kind to yourself. And I always tell them, self-care is not an option. It's a necessity.
You have to take care of yourself and whether that looks like going to take a bath or eating your favorite candy or taking a nap, you have to do those things so that you can feel good. You have to fill your own cup to do that. And then also meditation. So I do a lot of meditation with clients, so teaching them different types of breathing techniques, like the box breathing, which is where you breathe in for four, you hold it for four, and then you exhale for four.
Doing that three or four times just to kind of get your anxiety or your depression back down to base level. Because when we are anxious or when we are depressed, our feelings, our emotions are super, super high. And so the goal is to get your feelings back down to base level so that you can recover. And then meditation helps you with that.
So those are my main things that I tell my clients. I do a lot of research to try to figure out, because every client is different. It's not going to work for every client, what I suggest, but I think the number one thing that will work for every client is to remind themselves to be kind to themselves.
James Boehm:
Like it.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, so true. And we are so much, I am so much harder on myself than I would ever be on anybody else. And that's a really, really good reminder. How about you, James?
James Boehm:
Well, it makes me think about, yeah, the self-care is so important and I start early with my clients, day one with giving them what I designed is it's called a growth and awareness plan. And it's to help section one, the awareness. How do you know when you're out of your window of tolerance, out of your green zone? I call it like was mentioned.
We're in that five flight freeze mode anxiety or maybe we're way down in that sadness, depression, when we're out of our green zone, out of our window, that prefrontal cortex of our brain shuts down and we're not able to think rationally or think clearly.
And so I start early with what are those things that you can do that can build up and widen your window of tolerance, your green zone, so that when you experience stressful things, right, you're able to process it and be able to respond instead of react.
And again, it goes back to self-care, doing the things that we need. And during the pandemic, it was a radical time that was very difficult for many folks. And today what we're seeing in other ways, it's the stresses and anxiety, the depression. And so I remember my director or co-founder of where I work at had shared something about getting radical and I loved what she had shared with us as therapists.
And so I kind of took it because I do a lot of writing and I kind of modified it and made it applicable for my clients. And this is what I share with them, talking about getting radical with self-care. And you guys mentioned these things.
There are four things. Number one, radical grace, number two, radical adventure, number three, radical boundaries, and number four, radical rest. So the grace has to do with giving our, not only grace to others but ourselves, which is a lot of times that's the hardest thing to do, right?
Radical boundaries, being able to sometimes to say no and no, I love acronyms. No, doesn't mean never. No means next opportunity. So maybe I'm so stressed out right now, I just don't have the capacity. My tank is empty, so I might have to say no this time, but it doesn't mean never, right? Radical adventure, we feel like we're in this rut or our life is same thing every day. Drive a different, take a different route, try new restaurant, do different things, change things up. And then radical rest.
Our rest, sleep is so crucial to our mental health and it affects everything. Our physical, mental, emotional, and even our spiritual. If we're not getting the sleep that we need, it's going to be hard to do any of those other things. And so that's something that I really stress. My wife makes fun of me because I have acronyms for everything.
One of the biggest ones that I use is STOP. And it stands for slow down, take a deep breath. O is observe, we're just taking data, not judging, not criticizing, observing. And then P is proceed. We're proceeding to take that data and how can I respond instead of react to it and what the whole intention of that is just to get us to slow down. If we can just slow down enough, it allows us to allow that prefrontal cortex, allows us to get back in our window and have access to that prefrontal and to be able to respond instead of react.
Anil Lewis:
So we need to all be doing the box breathing, LaKisha talked about and have a little sound behind James with that little music that you get into yoga classes and (LaKisha laughs)...
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah. No, it's so true. And here's the thing too, from a lot of counseling and other things in my life, your body really does know what you need. It really does.
Anil Lewis:
You can learn to listen to it.
Melissa Riccobono:
You got to learn to listen to it. And I was always raised, if you're not feeling well, you just get up and you just put a smile on your face and you go through your day and you do everything that needs to be done. And that way you're not wallowing, right? You don't want to wallow. That's the worst thing you could do...
Anil Lewis:
Fight through it. Fight through it.
Melissa Riccobono:
Is to feel sorry for yourself. Throw a pity party. So you might be sad, whatever else, you just have to get up and you just have to do it.
James Boehm:
What was that major pain? "Suck it up" (LaKisha laughs).
Melissa Riccobono:
Suck it up. That's right. That's right.
Anil Lewis:
Don't be hating on major pain (LaKish and Melissa laugh).
Melissa Riccobono:
And I get where that advice came from. I do. And in my mom's defense, that works for her. It really does for the most part, or seems to have. She is a people person. She's an extrovert. And so she really gets her energy from being out in the world, interacting with other people, finding something to smile about, finding ways to be kind.
Finding ways to give back. And that has worked for her. I'm more an introvert, and I didn't realize how much of an introvert I was until the pandemic when I all of a sudden was like, "Oh my gosh, I don't have to have all these interactions. I miss them to a certain extent, but in some ways this is awesome" (LaKisha and Melissa laugh).
Like, "Oh, I am understanding myself so much better now." And with my chronic fatigue especially, and with my depression too, my biggest worry was how am I going to know when I've been sad long enough? Or you can kind of get stuck. I just want to sleep or I just want to be at home. And I know that's not the best thing for me, especially when you're depressed. You do need to go out. You do need to have that little adventure when you can handle it.
But you also need to replenish those spoons. And my chronic fatigue doctor said it best. He said, "I'm guessing that you are a go-getter." And I said, "Oh, yes." And he said, "I'm guessing that you just aren't allowing yourself to rest as much as you'd like to because you're just worried that you're going to get too much rest."
And I said, "Yes." And he said, "How's that working for you (LaKisha and Melissa laugh)?" And I said, "Well, I guess I'm here to see you (Anil and LaKisha laugh), so I guess that's not working very well, is it?" And he said, "No, it's not." And he said, "You have got to learn to trust your body. This is going to get better. It is, but you need to give it your own timeline."
And it's the same thing with grief, with depression, with anxiety. All the books, all the self-help books make it sound like it's this very little process that you just go through this step, that step, that step, and then you're done.
And that's not how any of it works. And just because somebody had somebody pass away three months ago and they're in this place, doesn't mean that if you're in a different place, that there's anything wrong because maybe you weren't angry, but they had to work through a lot of anger first, or maybe you will get angry later because they can't be there for a special event.
I mean, it's not as easy as people would make it sound. And you are on your own timeline and your body and your mind really do know what they need to a certain extent. And you do need to listen, and you do need to listen and give yourself that care and that grace that you need.
Anil Lewis:
And that's what I tell people, staff, whatever. When they tell me something's going on, first thing I tell them is listen to your body. And then the other thing I tell people is, you have to be intentional. I learned that so late in life because I was so much of a servant, just being there for everyone and letting circumstances control what I did.
I got rewarded because I felt good about being able to help people, but I did that at sacrifice of myself. So you have to be intentional. I love what you described around grace and boundaries. Those are absolutely, absolutely true. And giving yourself permission to put yourself first, that's important too. So all those different pieces.
But the most powerful thing for me is learning that my thought really does have power to control my reality in a real way. So my whole consciousness around who I am and what I do and being very intentional about what I think about, because you guys know me, I love to laugh because laughter to me is therapy.
And the way I do that is I'll shift the perspective on things that other people may think are fairly tragic in a way that removes the power from that tragic experience in a way that redirects me into a positive way. And that's really been my inner strength for years now.
James Boehm:
Laughter, best medicine. Yeah, absolutely.
Melissa Riccobono:
So let's wrap up with just talking about just the news. We have things as far as the government shutdown, the mass layoffs, the layoffs, especially in the reduction of the Office of Special Education and Rehabilitation Services, whatever it is, whatever news that's going on in the world that maybe isn't that bright. What do you tell people? How do you help them still remain informed about what's going on?
Because I do understand information is power, and maybe there are some people that you just tell them, look, just don't watch the news for a while (Melissa and LaKisha chuckle). And I think that's okay too. But at some point you do kind of have to come out of that cocoon, I think.
So what advice do you give people who are just struggling with kind of the bombardment of all these things or are struggling with it in their own lives and worried about it for themselves, for their children, for their parents, grandparents, whatever else. I'm sure you're seeing a lot of it right now. So what do you guys tell people about trying to help with things that you really can't control in the world outside and how to not let them just swallow you up?
James Boehm:
Yeah, I would say what you mentioned earlier about listening to your body and that growth and awareness plan, one of the things I say is a lot of times your body is telling you sometimes before our mind, our mental and emotional know something's going on. So listening to your body. And so if you're watching the news and you're starting to feel that tightness in your chest or your grit in your teeth, or you're starting to feel, listen to your body, your body's...
Anil Lewis:
Turn it off.
James Boehm:
Your body's trying to tell you something, right?
And so I always talk about, and I recently just came up with this, the ABCs, of therapy, A awareness...
Anil Lewis:
You do that {so much} (Anil and LaKisha laugh).
James Boehm:
Hold on, hold up.
Anil Lewis:
I'm sorry James, go ahead (LaKisha laughs).
Melissa Riccobono:
James is on brand, I love it (LaKisha laughs).
Anil Lewis:
From the top, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
James Boehm:
We talked about awareness, right? Being aware.
Anil Lewis:
Okay (chuckles).
James Boehm:
B, balance, every part of whether it's the news, whether no matter what it is, too much of anything is not good. So B, finding balance in things and C, confidence. Confidence that we got this and confidence that we're going to get through it, we're going to be able to navigate through it. And here's my last acronym and then I'll quit (Anil laughs), is hope. Hold On, Pain Ends.
LaKisha Holmes:
I love that.
James Boehm:
We're experiencing now...
Melissa Riccobono:
That's a beautiful one.
James Boehm:
What we're experiencing now, it's not going to always be like this, so hold on, pain ends.
Anil Lewis:
You my friend, are a cross between David DeNotaris and Norma Crosby (Melissa and LaKisha laugh). Norma is the queen of acronyms.
Melissa Riccobono:
And a little bit of Joe Ruffalo, I think (Melissa and LaKisha laugh)
Anil Lewis:
Yeah, Joe absolutely had acronyms too.
Melissa Riccobono:
Joe had his too. Yes he did.
Anil Lewis:
But Norma, she's acronym queen (LaKisha laughs). And David always has these little bit, he has one for hope too. I can't, now that you said yours, I can't remember his. So yeah.
James Boehm:
My wife, she said, you got an acronym for everything. I said acronym, A, always (Melissa and LaKisha laugh)....
Anil Lewis:
Woah, woah, woah! LaKisha, how about you (Anil and LaKisha laugh)?
LaKisha Holmes:
I'm over here taking notes (LaKisha, Anil and James laugh). Definitely. Yeah, I was going to say definitely listen to your body. Your body knows when you've had enough. I remember there was a time a couple of months ago, I was like, "Oh my gosh, I can't take any more of this bad news." I am just on social media. I'm just seeing people talk and talk and talk about all this bad stuff happening.
And I had a friend, actually, Nikki Jackson, she said, "Give yourself a break, turn it off. And then when you're ready to come back to it, go back to it." So definitely listening to your body and then leaning on your support systems. We don't have to do it alone. We have a support system for a reason. And that could be your parent, it could be your sibling, it could be your best friend, whoever.
Just know that you have someone in your corner that you can go and even if you don't want them to give you advice, just say, "Look, I just want to vent. Just listen to me." That helps too. And then coming back to that self-care, turn off the news. Get off of social media, put your phone down, go out for some walks, go do some exercise, do something to make yourself feel good.
And then when you think you're ready to go back to it, when you think you're ready to go back and jump in the rink, then go for it. But make sure that you are able, you're ready for it, because it can be overwhelming because there's just so much going on, and even if you may be dealing with it personally and you're just trying to figure out how other people are feeling about it or how to deal with it yourself, you still have to take that time away from it just so that you don't tear yourself down.
Anil Lewis:
And I think the last part you said is very important. Get to a place where you're right, but also find that time to do something to empower you, to make you feel like you do have some control, because you do. As I've talked to individuals who have been riffed and furloughed, getting them to focus on, well, in the interim, what is it you can do? My sister, God bless her, she's a federal employee, she's furloughed at the time, she was stuck in a place where she wasn't feeling the best, and I understand that.
But she started pouring more of herself into the work here in the local affiliate in Georgia. And that's helped her keep motivated and positive. And she feels like she's having control of her life and having an impact. So find ways to continue to add meaning to your life as well.
Melissa Riccobono:
And I think also along with that, if you truly do not have any spoons left, allowing somebody to carry you for just a little while, knowing that there's always going to be more work to do, and that if you truly, there was a while that I just could not advocate. I could not be an IEP advocate for other people for a ton of different reasons. Some of it was just way too close to home. Some of it is I just didn't have the energy to really give it my all and really do a good enough job. There were lots of different reasons, now I'm back to it.
But in that interim, being able to let that part go and knowing it was going to be in good hands and knowing that I was going to be there to offer guidance, but just maybe not be at those meetings or be talking to those parents, that's okay too. Or if you can't do it today, maybe you can go tomorrow. Or, I mean, of course you don't want to be, again, you don't want to get stuck in letting everybody do everything else and not having you do anything. But it is also okay to allow people to carry you for a little while.
Anil Lewis:
That speaks to what James was talking about, giving yourself grace to allow yourself to be okay with that.
James Boehm:
Yeah. And again, no next opportunity. Just as we say, no, this time doesn't mean we can't do it sometime in the future.
Melissa Riccobono:
Just means not now or next opportunity. I like next opportunity.
James Boehm:
Opportunity, yeah.
Melissa Riccobono:
I like alliteration, maybe more than acronyms, so I like not now (Melissa, LaKisha and Anil laugh). Well, James and LaKisha are both listed on our Blind Owned and Operated Marketplace.
Anil Lewis:
The Marketplace, yes.
The marketplace, yes.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, which provides a list of blind entrepreneurs and information on their businesses. I think this is amazing. And so this is going to be linked in the show notes. I think all of you should certainly, if you're interested in James and LaKisha and the counseling services that they could provide you, please reach out.
But also, if you're not in Tennessee, if you're not in Texas and you're struggling, please reach out. There is hope, as James said, hold on, pain ends. It does. I've been there in a very real way. I think Anil has been there in a real way. I'm guessing James and LaKisha have been in dark places.
Anil Lewis:
Multiple times.
Melissa Riccobono:
And it really does get better. But sometimes it is just reaching out and taking that first step and admitting that you need some help. And so please don't be afraid to do that. And they talk a lot about 988. That's not every single place, but it is in a lot of different places, and that's always available. But if 988 isn't in your community, there's usually 211, which can give you some different resources.
Of course, there's 911 if you're really, really struggling, but you matter enough, you're good enough, smart enough, lovely enough just the way you are. And there are people who would be very, very sad because their world will be darker without you in it.
So if you are struggling, please reach out. Please get some help. And if it's not a struggle where you need a ton of help, but hopefully this just reminders of how to give yourself a little self care, a little grace. Hopefully all of this has helped you. And if you feel like this has helped you, share it, share it with other friends, blind or not.
I'm hoping this is a Nation's Blind Podcast episode that of course we're talking to two counselors who happen to be blind, but this really isn't a blindness topic so much as it is a mental health topic. And so I really appreciate both of you for taking the time to be with us, and I really hope that this is a podcast that is enjoyed and is shared. Any final thoughts from anyone of you?
Anil Lewis:
As a reward for your guys' participation, for you guys participating as guests, your reward is you get to plug your business right here (LaKisha laughs). Will you tell our listeners how they can reach you?
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, absolutely. Go ahead.
LaKisha Holmes:
Okay. So I can be reached on Facebook. I do have a private practice. It's very, very tiny, Healthy Mind Healing Hearts, PLLC based out of Texas. I do also have a Psychology Today profile where people can go and see the different types of modalities I use. And that's pretty much where I can be found.
And I just want to say thank you for allowing me to come on and share. Mental health is really important to me. And so I'm just glad that this platform is available and that mental health is being talked about more because in the past it just never, it wasn't acceptable to talk about. And so I'm just really grateful for this platform.
Anil Lewis:
Well, thank you.
James Boehm:
I want to definitely say that too. Appreciate you guys and allowing us to talk about this topic. It's not always an easy topic to discuss, but it's a very important topic. You can find me also on Psychology Today, my profile counseling private practice is called Alliance Nashville, so it's alliancenashville.com. I also work at a place called The Refuge Center for Counseling. It's Refuge, see the refugecenter.org. Yeah, so if there's anything we can do to support you guys, please reach out.
Anil Lewis:
Nice. I thought you were about to give an acronym for refuge (James, LaKisha, Melissa and Anil laugh). It really has been a joy having you guys, and it's nice to talk about this very, very serious topic in a way that really is light enough so that it doesn't get so overwhelming for people to ingest. So you guys, you've made this really special, so we appreciate it and we want to encourage, again, all of our listeners, listen to your body because if you do, then you can live the life you want.
Melissa Riccobono:
Blindness is not what holds you back.
Announcer:
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