Welcome to the twenty-first episode of Access On, the National Federation of the Blind's Technology podcast.
Episode
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Timestamps
The show is segmented by chapter, making it easy to move between segments of the podcast if you have an app or player that supports chapters. Below is what's on the show this week, and when you can hear it.
- Introduction 0:00
- Join us for an update on autonomous vehicles 0:58
- Google AI Studio 3:12
- ChatGPT Voice and video 13:59
- I want a stand-alone talking thermostat 16:28
- Can AI walk me through a route? 17:50
- Getting information from a slide presentation 31:00
- The arrival of the Copilot key 33:11
- CSUN 2025, the NFB national convention, and exercise equipment 37:58
- The benefit of using several operating systems 40:20
- YouTube for iOS speed control broken 42:51
- Innosearch is now a phone call away 44:43
- Netflix on Samsung TVs 51:56
Transcript
Speaker 1: Live the life you want.
Jonathan Mosen: Welcome to another edition of Access On, the technology podcast of the National Federation of the Blind. This week we take a look at some of the innovative technology available through Google's AI studio. We give you a brief overview of the premium ChatGPT voice with camera from OpenAI. Innosearch is now just a phone call away. We take this technology for a quick test drive. And we have more listener comments on using Netflix apps on several step-top boxes and smart TVs.
Good to be back with you for episode 21 of the podcast. It's Jonathan Mosen at the Jernigan Institute here in sunny Baltimore, Maryland. Well, okay, it's actually raining really heavily outside as I put this together, but I am an optimist by nature. I hope you've enjoyed the seminar on online meeting platforms. That was four hours long if you attended that, and over the next few weeks we will get to serializing that and putting some interesting information on Access On relating to Microsoft Teams Zoom, Google Meet, and WebEx and we've got more coming up because we are relentlessly working to bring you information you can use.
And we have a webinar coming up, a boutique, and this is on autonomous vehicles. And it's going to be happening on April the 29th from 2:00 until 3:30, Eastern time. Autonomous vehicles sometimes called self-driving cars present an intriguing opportunity for the blind community. They have the potential to be a powerful tool for increasing blind people's independence, but there is a lot of work yet to do. Autonomous vehicles are still under development and only deployed in very limited areas. There are also concerns around making sure the vehicle interface and accompanying apps are accessible.
Legal issues also exist such as where the vehicles are allowed to go and whether a driver's license will be required to operate one. Topics will cover include ensuring the accessibility of vehicle and app interfaces, advocacy with government agencies to ensure equal access, experiences of blind riders, potential next steps, and future developments. You can register for the Autonomous Vehicle Update Boutique by going to nfb.org/cena. That's nfb.org/cena, and you can click on the events and training link and you'll find the registration process there.
We will eventually also get to providing an abridged version of it right here on Access On, but there's nothing quite like attending the webinar because you can ask questions and you get to hear the thing in full. A couple of weeks ago we featured some of the items from a webinar on artificial intelligence presented by the Arizona affiliate of the National Federation of the Blind. Lots of positive feedback on that and I have a few more nuggets to play from that webinar, both from Joe Good, and we begin with some very cutting-edge AI technologies coming from Google.
Joe Good: At this moment, we're going to talk a little bit about Google AI Studio. What I want to demonstrate today is how to use Google AI Studio to help you describe YouTube videos and even read parts of your screen and you can even talk to it as we do some shopping on Amazon. And then we're going to quickly demonstrate a little bit on how to get it to read a little bit of a PDF page. I'm going to alt tab to my Chrome.
Screen Reader: Amazon.com, spend less, smile more- Google Chrome, amazon.com, spend less.
Joe Good: I'm going to hit Control N.
Screen Reader: Your tab groups automatically save and update across all your-
Joe Good: Hit Alt D once I hit Control N to open a new browser window. And then I'm going to type in aistudio.google.com/live. Again, I'll say that again. Aistudio.google.com/live.
Screen Reader: Studio.google.com/live.
Joe Good: Okay, so there we go. I'm going to press Enter.
Screen Reader: Stream realtime vertical bar, Google AI studio-Google Chrome-[inaudible 00:04:20]. Stream realtime vertical bar.
Joe Good: We want to actually share the screen. I'm going to go to the top of the page. Look for the share screen button by just hitting the letter B.
Screen Reader: Skip [inaudible 00:04:30] to laptop show, share your microphone button, share your screen button.
Joe Good: Enter.
Screen Reader: Choose what to share with the studio.google.com dialogue.
Joe Good: Hit tab.
Screen Reader: Window [inaudible 00:04:38], Window tab selected new tab page, Window tab selected, selected. Entire screen tab selected. Selected.
Joe Good: Okay. Now I don't have to hit Enter here, but I can tab.
Screen Reader: Entire screen. The site will be able to see the contents of your... share button.
Joe Good: So here we go.
Screen Reader: Check. Stream real [inaudible 00:04:52] page is accessing. Stream amazon.com, spend less, smile more-Google-
Joe Good: Hi there. Can you see my screen?
Google AI Studi...: Yes, I can see your screen. It looks like you're on the Amazon Home page.
Screen Reader: Context [inaudible 00:05:07]. Leaving menus, amazon.com.
Joe Good: All right, we're going to search for microphones.
Google AI Studi...: Okay. You want to search for microphones on Amazon.
Screen Reader: Search [inaudible 00:05:17] pop-up.
Google AI Studi...: Should I wait for you to type in the search or is there anything else I can help you with?
Joe Good: Let me type it in.
Google AI Studi...: Okay. I will wait for you to type it in.
Screen Reader: Amazon.com. Spend less. Amazon.com, colon Yeti Mix, Amazon.com, colon Yeti mix. Keyboard 1-48 results heading level 2.
Joe Good: Tell me about the microphones on this page.
Google AI Studi...: Okay, the page shows search results for Yeti mics. There are various microphones displayed including the two-pack wireless mini lavalier, lapel microphone at the top. There are also some blue microphones and other brands appearing as well. Is there anything else I can help you with regarding this page?
Joe Good: I'm going to browse real quick. Give me a moment.
Google AI Studi...: Okay, I will wait while you browse. Let me know if you need anything.
Screen Reader: Logic Games, logic for creators, blue Logic, click XLR slash logic for creators. Blue Yeti USB microphone for gaming, streaming podcasting. Amazon.com/logic-creators-condenser-microphone-988.
Joe Good: Okay, so I've browsed to this particular microphone. Tell me about the features and specs.
Screen Reader: Amazon.com, colon Logitech for creators [inaudible 00:06:27].
Google AI Studi...: The product you're looking at is the Logitech for Creators Blue Yeti USB microphone. According to the page, it is designed for gaming, streaming, podcasting, Twitch, YouTube, Discord, and recording for PC and Mac. It also has four polar patterns, studio-quality sound, and is plug-and-play. In addition, it's listed as an Amazon's choice product with a 4.6 out of 5-star rating and over 34,000 reviews.
The price is listed as 89.99 dollars. It also has a mention of free returns and has a delivery date listed as Saturday, March 22nd. There is also a mention that you can get free delivery and early delivery tomorrow.
Joe Good: Is the 89 dollars the retail price or the Amazon price?
Speaker 5: The 89.99 dollars is the current Amazon price. The list price is shown as 129.99 dollars with a note that you are saving 31-
Joe Good: Thank you much. Give me just a moment.
Screen Reader: Task switching, a studio.google.com is sharing your screen.
Google AI Studi...: Okay, I will wait.
Screen Reader: A studio.[inaudible 00:07:30]. Stop sharing button, checked. Mute. Currently unmuted.
Joe Good: As you've noticed, what's happening is this site does not automatically take me to places. I have to actually go to the microphone or the product that I'm looking for and hit Enter on it just as if I were browsing a website. Because, well, that's what I'm doing. All right, so now we're going to go... let's go into this menu for a really tasty restaurant here in the Phoenix area called Oregano's.
Screen Reader: Menu, vertical bar, tasty Italian food from-
Joe Good: So let's hit Control N for a new window.
Screen Reader: Land address insert-
Joe Good: Type AI-
Screen Reader: Studio.google.com/live. Stream realtime vertical bar.
Joe Good: Share screen buttons.
Screen Reader: Skip to [inaudible 00:08:13]. Boot the laptop to show Gemma share your screen button. Choose what to share with the studio.google.com.dial.
Joe Good: Tab.
Screen Reader: Window proof. Window tab selected.
Joe Good: Right arrow.
Screen Reader: New tab page, window tab, select-
Joe Good: Entire screen.
Screen Reader: And share button.
Joe Good: Click share.
Screen Reader: Check. Stream this page is accessing your microphone. Change the setting into the...
Joe Good: Hey, how you doing today? I'm on the Oregano's menu. Just give me a summary.
Google AI Studi...: Okay. You are on the Oregano's menu page and would like a summary. Is there anything in particular that you would like me to summarize such as the different sections of the menu?
Joe Good: How about you summarize all the different sections? I'm hungry.
Google AI Studi...: Okay. I see the menu sections at the top of the page. They are pasta, pizza, salads, sandwiches, tastes, desserts, drinks, sides, and kids. Would you like me to elaborate on any of these categories?
Joe Good: Can you elaborate on the pasta section?
Google AI Studi...: Certainly. The pasta section includes dishes like spaghetti, fettuccine, and ravioli. Often served with various sauces like marinara, Alfredo, or pesto, and some include meat or vegetables. Would you like more detail on specific pasta dishes?
Joe Good: Spaghetti.
Google AI Studi...: Okay. Within the spaghetti options, you will likely find different sauces and protein choices. Would you like me to see if I can find more specific information on the spaghetti options?
Joe Good: That was an example of using it for the restaurant. Now we're going to go into a slightly not that accessible PDF.
Screen Reader: Menu, vertical bar, QR B-60 owner's manual PDF download, vertical bar manuals.
Joe Good: Hey, what do we have on this page?
Google AI Studi...: The page you were showing is a user manual for a gourmet single-cup home brewing system. There are links to view a PDF of the manual, a table of contents, troubleshooting, and bookmarks. Also, there are numbered page previews of the manual. Is there anything else you would like to know?
Joe Good: Read this page.
Screen Reader: Setting up your-
Google AI Studi...: Okay. This is page six of the manual and it's titled Section one, Set Up and First Brew. It explains that you cannot use the Keurig brewer until it has been set up for its first use, and it provides a note that if the brewer has been exposed to temperatures below freezing, you should allow it-
Joe Good: Read from top to bottom. Don't summarize.
Google AI Studi...: Okay, the top of the page says manual slip. Then there is a search bar. Below that, there is a sign-in button and an upload button. Below that are the words download table of contents.
Joe Good: All right, so we're being literal here. Okay, I got you. Now we're going to do a YouTube video. So I'm going to go to the YouTube video now, the YouTube video is of the Apple Watch Series 10 direct from Apple. There's no talking, it's just a piece of music.
Screen Reader: Address and search bar edit, studio.land. Stream realtime vertical. Stream realtime vertical. Skip [inaudible 00:11:03]. Google laptop to show to share your screen microphone. Choose what to share with a window, new tab, page, window, entire screen, just share button. Check. Stream real test page is access.
Joe Good: All right, tell me what screen you see.
Google AI Studi...: Okay, I see a screen recording of a YouTube video titled, introducing Apple Watch Series 10 Apple.
Joe Good: Perfect. I'm going to play it and I'd like you to describe it.
Google AI Studi...: Okay, I'm ready. Please play the video. I will do my best to describe it.
Joe Good: Go for it.
Screen Reader: To exit full screen, YouTube video player in full screen.
Joe Good: Describe it.
Google AI Studi...: Okay. The video is playing. It begins with a black-and-white visual. There are horizontal streaks of white moving across the screen on a black background. Then the image transitions to a shot of black microphone on a black surface. There are curved white lines in the background. The video progress bar indicates that it is ten seconds into the forty-second video.
Joe Good: How about now?
Google AI Studi...: Okay, now the video is showing a close-up of an Apple Watch face. The background is black. On the watch face, there is the time, 10:09 displayed at the top, and a measurement, eight ft is displayed in the center of the watch face, along with a timer that is counting up from zero. The watch face is a light turquoise color, and the numbers are a light blue. The video progress bar indicates that it is twenty-one seconds into the forty second video.
Joe Good: How about now? Now describe it.
Google AI Studi...: Okay. Now the screen is showing two different video thumbnails side by side on a black background. On the left, there is a thumbnail titled iPhone 16, introducing iPhone-
Screen Reader: [inaudible 00:13:04].
Google AI Studi...: With a picture of two white iPhones stacked on top.
Screen Reader: Screen sharing [inaudible 00:13:07].
Joe Good: All right, so basically I think you kind of got the idea, right? You have to keep prompting it along and sometimes it does well, at least I think it does well and sometimes maybe not so well. I'm fairly trusting of this AI in terms of a video description. I don't think I would use it for example right now to describe an entire movie, but it'll be great for, let's say you're watching a YouTube video and you hear them say, click here or look at the text in this area of the screen. This would be a great way to be able to get that text.
Now obviously, it doesn't take the place of things like Picture Smart and other methods to read the screen, but it is a nice little tool to have in your toolbox. What I'm going to do real briefly is talk about... we still have a lot to go through... I'm going to talk about ChatGPT's voice mode along with the camera on the iPhone. If you are paying the ChatGPT, this is a paid feature, 20 dollars a month. It's the pro version. When you open the app, there is a voice mode that you can double tap on, and then once you have double-tapped on that, there's a camera button that you can tap on and it will grant access to your camera. I always thought that was an interesting way to access it.
But the cool thing about this is, for example, you can say, tell me what's in the room, or describe what I'm looking at. Basically, talk to it just like a lot of these other models that we have already discussed. It's a conversational AI, so it's ChatGPT in voice mode and using the camera. I really enjoy it and I have found it to actually be very good at describing colors like when I'll be getting ready for work or something like that.
I'll have it describe a shirt and a pair of pants, and then I've called Aira and just had them verify it. So again, trust and verify. And I have found it to be really accurate. That's a really neat feature of ChatGPT. Again, this particular feature does require the paid mode, so 20 dollar a month for the Pro version. And it's obviously it's not the usual 9.99 or 12.99, but the AI is a lot and there's a lot of money that goes into it, so it's really cool. So that is a brief thing with ChatGPT and the camera mode on your iPhone.
Jonathan Mosen: Thanks very much to you, Joe. Good for those demonstrations and also to everybody who was involved in such an entertaining and informative webinar from the National Federation of the Blind of Arizona. I also did a piece there on prompt engineering, which I won't play because it largely rehashes material that we've covered in early episodes of Access On. But I very much enjoyed being invited to listen and also participate.
And if around the country your affiliate is doing something like this and you have something that you think might be worthy of inclusion on Access On, then do let me know. We have a lot of listener contributions that have built up because we've had quite a few lengthy inserts on Access On of late, so I'm going to spend the remainder of the time trying to catch up with some of these very interesting listener contributions.
And we're going to the greater Seattle chapter of the National Federation of the Blind. That's where Noel Nightingale is, and this email says, "Jonathan, since 2004, I have had a talking thermostat with tactile buttons in my house that allowed me to know which temperature I was setting. Talking Thermostat was made by a company called SmartWays. A month ago, my husband was doing something with it and it broke. We have been unable to find a new Talking Thermostat and instead have replaced it with one that has tactile buttons but does not talk.
I don't want to have to use a smart thermostat with an app or smart speaker to accomplish what once was a simple task. I am sad that I no longer can confidently know which temperature I am setting. Do you know of any talking thermostats that are available these days?" Noel, good to hear from you. I have asked around here at CENA and we are not aware of anything at the moment that is available. There could be a gap in our knowledge because there is so much out there, so if anybody does know of a product that would meet your needs, please be in touch and we'll talk about it here and we can share that knowledge with the listeners. [email protected], let's all joined together, [email protected] if you can help Noel out with that.
To Louisville, Kentucky, we go to hear from Rick Roderick and he says, "Hi, Jonathan. Your app prompt program was very interesting. I wonder if there is an app or AI that will give me the detailed walking directions that I want. I want to walk from my house to Bristol Bar and Grill on Bardstown Road. Many apps will give the distance and turn-by-turn directions, what they won't tell me is what streets I will need to cross to get there. Other information would also be helpful. What intersections have traffic lights? Will I encounter any stretches that don't have sidewalks? I want all this information before I undertake the trip. Any recommendations?
Well, let's give this a try, Rick, and let's bring ChatGPT back into the conversation. Welcome back to the Access On podcast from the National Federation of the Blind, GP.
ChatGPT: Hey Rick, thanks for having me back on. Always a pleasure.
Jonathan Mosen: I mean you can call me Rick. I've been called worse. All right. This is what I want you to do if you would, could you give me detailed walking directions suitable for my use as a blind person? So I want all the details of the route and I want to walk from the National Federation of the Blind in East Wells Street to Blue Moon Too Cafe on Cross Street. I want you to describe the route for me, including all the streets I will walk on, all the streets where I will cross the street, and whether that street has traffic lights at the intersection or not, and please tell me if there is any part of the route that doesn't have sidewalks.
ChatGPT: Jonathan, to walk from the National Federation of the Blind on Wells Street to Blue Moon Too Cafe on Cross Street, exit the NFB building and turn right, proceed to the intersection with Pratt Street, cross Pratt Street, and continue straight on Cross Street until you reach the cafe. This route is approximately 0.5 miles and should take about ten minutes.
Jonathan Mosen: So do I have to cross any streets?
ChatGPT: Yes, you'll need to cross Pratt Street. There's a traffic light at the intersection which should help with crossing safely. The rest of the route should be straightforward with sidewalks all the way.
Jonathan Mosen: I checked those directions out with people who know more about Baltimore than I do, and I'm told that that is a hallucination, that is not going to get you to where you want to go. So I think we can say that unless you maybe did a deep research task, which would be overkill I think for a task like this, you cannot rely on ChatGPT to give you this sort of direction. So let's see if Google Gemini will do a similar thing. Hello, Gemini.
Google Gemini: Hello. It's great to meet you. What can I do for you today?
Jonathan Mosen: Welcome to the Access On podcast from the National Federation of the Blind.
Google Gemini: Oh, that's exciting. Are you looking for a specific episode or did you want to know more about the podcast itself?
Jonathan Mosen: I'm actually hosting the podcast right now, mate, and you are on it.
Google Gemini: Wow, that's fantastic. Congratulations on hosting the podcast. What's the focus of this particular episode? I'm really curious to hear more about it.
Jonathan Mosen: What I'd like to see is if you can help me with a query. I want you please to give me detailed walking directions suitable for me as a blind person to know all details of the route. I want to walk from the National Federation of the Blind on East Wells Street to Blue Moon Too Cafe on Cross Street, and I'd like you to describe the route for me, including all the streets I will walk on, all the streets where I will cross the street, and whether that street has traffic lights at the intersection or not. And please tell me if there's any part of the route that doesn't have sidewalks.
Google Gemini: I can't access real-time information, including information about walking routes. For walking directions and navigation, you can use Google Maps or other map services.
Jonathan Mosen: So that was very unhelpful, wasn't it? So really Google Gemini can't help with this at all. ChatGPT gave it a shot. Let's talk about Grok, which is a pretty interesting AI. This is the one from xAI. A bit expensive to get the premium service and we'll see what it can do. Hello there, Grok. How are you?
Grok: I'm doing great, thanks for asking, just chilling in the digital realm. Ready to answer your questions with a bit of sass and a lot of smarts. What's on your mind this morning?
Jonathan Mosen: Well, first of all, I'd like to welcome you to the Access On podcast from the National Federation of the Blind where you are live.
Grok: Oh, wow. I'm thrilled to be here on the Access On podcast with the National Federation of the Blind. Thanks for the warm welcome. So what's the vibe today? Ready to dive into some tech talk or something else entirely?
Jonathan Mosen: I want you to give me detailed walking directions suitable for me as a blind person to know all the details of the route, and I want to walk from the National Federation of the Blind on East Wells Street to Blue Moon Too Cafe on Cross Street. Describe the route for me, including all the streets that I will walk on, all the streets where I will cross the street and whether that street has traffic lights at the intersection or not. And please tell me if there's any part of the route that doesn't have sidewalks.
Grok: All right, let's get you from the National Federation of the Blind at 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore to Blue Moon Too Cafe on Cross Street. I'm going to walk you through this step-by-step, tailored for you as a blind traveler with all the streets, crossings, traffic light details, and sidewalk info.
Since I don't have real-time access to every detail about Baltimore's sidewalks or intersections, I'll base this on typical urban navigation and standard accessibility features. If anything's unclear, let me know and I can refine it.
Starting at the National Federation of the Blind, you'll exit the building onto East Wells Street facing roughly. West sidewalks are present here as this is a developed urban area. You'll head west along the sidewalk on the south side of East Wells Street. Use your cane or guide dog to follow the tactile edge of the sidewalk listening for traffic on your right to stay oriented.
East Wells is a quieter street, but stay alert for any driveway cuts or uneven pavement. After about one block, you'll reach the intersection of East Wells Street and South Calvert Street. This is a signalized intersection with traffic lights. You'll hear the flow of traffic on Calvert, which runs north-south. Wait for the audible pedestrian signal, often a chirping or beeping sound indicating it's safe to cross. These signals might also vibrate if you locate the push button typically on the pole to your right.
Cross South Calvert Street, keeping straight to stay on East Wells. Check for tactile paving to guide you onto the crosswalk. The crossing should take about ten to fifteen seconds at a steady pace. Once across, you're still on East Wells Street continuing west on the sidewalk. Sidewalks remain consistent here with no gaps based on standard city layouts. After another block, you'll hit the intersection of East Wells Street and South Caroline Street.
This is also a signalized intersection with traffic lights. Listen for the traffic pattern, Caroline runs north-south and you'll hear vehicle stopping or moving parallel to your path. Find the tactile paving and audible signal to cross South Caroline Street. The crossing is similar in length to Calvert, so expect another ten to fifteen seconds. After crossing, keep going west on East Wells Street sidewalk. You're now approaching a slightly busier area, so traffic noise from your right will be steady.
After about two more blocks, East Wells Street ends at South President Street. This intersection has traffic lights, as President is a major north-south road. You'll cross South President Street again using the audible signal and tactile paving. This crossing might feel wider, closer to twenty seconds since President is a broader street. Pay attention to turning vehicles as this area can have more traffic. Once across, East Wells becomes West Wells Street and you'll continue west on the sidewalk.
Sidewalks are continuous here, no gaps expected in this downtown stretch. After one block, you'll reach South Charles Street, another signalized intersection. Charles is busy with clear traffic light cycles. Cross South Charles Street using the audible signal, which might include a voice or distinct beep. Tactile paving should guide you. This crossing is about fifteen seconds. Now on West Wells Street, keep walking west. After a few more blocks, roughly three, you'll reach South Hanover Street. This intersection has traffic lights and you'll cross Hanover, a north-south street.
The audible signal and tactile paving will help and the crossing is standard, around fifteen seconds. Stay alert for pedestrians as this area might have more foot traffic. After crossing Hanover, continue west on West Wells Street. You're getting closer now. After about two more blocks, West Wells Street merges into West Baltimore Street for a short stretch. The sidewalk remains intact, no interruptions.
Follow West Baltimore Street West until you hit South Utah Street. A signalized intersection with traffic lights. Cross South Utah Street using the audible signal and tactile paving. Another fifteen second crossing. Once across, you're back on West Wells Street briefly, but you'll soon need to turn left onto South Paca Street. This is a signalized intersection too, so listen for the traffic shift. Turn left and head south on Paca sidewalk, which is continuous.
After about two blocks, you'll reach West Pratt Street. Cross Pratt at the signalized intersection using the audible signal. Pratt's a busy street, so the crossing might take twenty seconds. Now on South Paca Street, keep going south for another block until you hit West Cross Street. This intersection has traffic lights. You won't cross Cross, but turn right to head west on Cross Street sidewalk. Sidewalks are present throughout. Follow Cross Street west for about three blocks. You'll pass South Charles Street and South Hanover Street again. Both signalized crossings if you need landmarks but you're staying on Cross.
After those blocks, you'll reach the area near 1036 South Cross Street where Blue Moon Too Cafe is located. The sidewalk should lead you right to the entrance. Listen for cafe sounds, people chatting, dishes clinking to confirm you're there. Quick recap, you'll walk on East Wells, West Wells, briefly West Baltimore, South Paca, and West Cross Street. Crossings are South Calvert, South Caroline, South President, South Charles, South Hanover, South Utah, West Pratt, all with traffic lights and audible signals. Sidewalks are continuous throughout based on Baltimore's urban setup. Total distance is about a mile, maybe twenty to thirty minutes depending on your pace. Anything you want me to double check or zoom in on for this route?
Jonathan Mosen: That was very thorough. Thank you for your help.
Grok: You are so welcome. Glad I could lay out all the details for you. If you need another route mapped out or anything else, just give me a shout. Safe travels to Blue Moon Too Cafe.
Jonathan Mosen: Well yes, but the trouble is that if you follow that route, you wouldn't get there according to experts here who know far more about Baltimore than I do. But I ran this past a couple of blind people who are very good with the streets of Baltimore and they told me that that was way, way out. So that's actually a compelling example of a hallucination of AI sounding incredibly plausible there and giving you an answer that made no sense.
So I think the answer is, you don't want to rely on these large language models for this particular task and maybe others have some ideas about GPS apps they're using where as a blind person you can sit in the comfort of your own home and really get a good feel for the route that you will take before you take it because there are explore modes on several of these GPS apps, some of them mainstream and some of them not. So if you have any thoughts on this, [email protected] is how you get in touch. [email protected], but let's sort of park the idea of using AI for this, at least the mainstream AI solutions at this particular time.
Here's an email from Tina Hansen who says, "I've often attended or heard of presentations where a slideshow is a big part of it. This happens at my neighborhood association and I'm the only person with a print disability. One of my questions is how to deal with presentations and programs where much information is presented on the slides but isn't voiced by the presenter. If you can't see the information or have a print disability, you're lost unless they give a summary. But how do we bridge the gap between the visual world and the verbal world? Is it necessary to have each and every slide read out word for word in order for blind and low-vision audience members to get at this information?"
Well, Tina, I think this is a relatively easy one to resolve. If you know that a presenter is going to be running a PowerPoint presentation, you could ask the presenter for the slides in advance. That's the ideal scenario because then if you have any kind of device, whether it be a Braille display or a portable speech device, could be your smartphone even, where you can go through those slides, then you'll have them when they're up on the screen and you'll have the detail.
The second-best thing is to get them to send you the slides after the presentation has concluded. But if it's a blindness event, I think I would hold people to a higher standard. They should be making the slides available in advance in accessible formats. And I do know people who have walked out of events where the focus has been blindness or accessibility where that has not been done because you would expect people in that environment to do a little better, but just ask for the slides. Hopefully, they can email them to you and that should be an adequate solution. We'll have more listener comments after the break here on Access On.
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Jonathan Mosen: Welcome back to Access On. Stephen Hudson's writing in and says, "Hey there, Jonathan. I'd like to bring attention back to a topic that was discussed on Living Blindfully and hasn't been discussed here yet. That would be the addition of the Co-pilot key to New Windows PC keyboards. For those who may be unaware of what this is, the Co-pilot key is a key that Microsoft wants to make standard on new keyboards in order to provide easy access to Co-pilot. That may sound great for people who may use Co-pilot regularly, but it comes at a cost.
When the news first broke, we were told that the Co-pilot key would be replacing the menu key, also known as the applications key. This would force keyboard users to use Shift plus F10 in order to access the right click menu. Not all keyboards have a menu key, so some of us already use Shift plus F10. However, those of us who do use the menu key would be losing functionality.
The last time this issue was discussed, it was understood that Microsoft would be allowing hardware manufacturers to decide where to place the Co-pilot key. While this sounds good in theory, in practice it comes with its own set of problems. First, this means there isn't really a standard for where the Co-pilot key is placed. Two different keyboards could have the Co-pilot key in different places. This means that someone could purchase a keyboard or laptop with a Co-pilot key that has a menu key, but it might lack a right Windows key, a right Alt key, or even a right Control key. There will be no way to know unless they were told ahead of time.
This might also make choosing a keyboard or device more difficult as the choice may come down to where the Co-pilot key has been placed. Second, there is currently no easy way to remap the Co-pilot key in order to restore the standard functionality of the replaced key. Workarounds do exist but they're not perfect and require some technical knowledge that not all people will possess.
This has made even more problematic due to the fact that the Co-pilot key physically sends an F23 signal. I've already seen an example of the above over on the audiogames.net forum. Someone posted asking how to remap the Co-pilot key back to the right Control key on a laptop. The best workaround I've on that thread so far involves using an auto hotkey script, but it's not a perfect solution.
Once again, it seems as though companies are making significant changes without taking into account how some people may be impacted. Either that or they figure that if a keyboard has more than one type of key, one of them can be sacrificed. Since there are many companies that manufacture laptops and keyboards, I imagine that advocacy in this area may be difficult even so if this is something that isn't brought up before it does become a new standard, an attempt to change things later on may be even more difficult."
Thanks very much, Stephan. I think it's also important to mention too that Shift-F10 does not always do the same thing as the application key or the menu key, and you can also hold down shift with the application key to get an extended menu in operating systems like Windows 11. If you look at OSIRA for example, which is the tool that people use to make repo accessible and it's a very powerful tool, they use the application key in conjunction with modifiers like Control and Shift and Alt to get other menus to pop up.
So it is an important issue and it has been raised with Microsoft in the past about the importance of the application key and we'll follow up with them and see what their current stance on this is. It is fair to say though that for a long time there have been inconsistencies on laptop keyboards. For example, some laptop keyboards have an application key now and others do not. For example, when I got my current Lenovo ThinkPad, which I use for personal use, it did not have an application key. Of all things, it had a print screen key on the right-hand side on the bottom where I would've expected an application key to be, and I used a tool called Sharp Keys to remap the print screen key to the application key.
And once it's done, it's done. I did that when I first got this ThinkPad and I haven't had to think about it again. So we have always had that inconsistency also, for example. Earlier iterations of the ThinkPad had the control and the function keys switched around from where you would normally expect compared with other laptops. So to some degree, we've always had to get used to a little bit of variations in our keyboards, but there are real applications in the potential disappearance of the menu or application key from devices, so I'm glad that you have raised this again.
The prolific Carl Smith is writing and again and he says, "I think I have you beat regarding CSUN as I attended my first CSUN in 1993 and attended more than twenty years in a row. I do enjoy the conference, but I completely agree with Chansey's comment about the cost. I am a small access technology business owner and the price of registration for CSUN plus the high cost of travel and lodging has caused me not to attend in recent years as I can't justify the more than 2,000 dollar cost for me to attend.
On the other hand, I have attended forty-seven NFB National Conventions in a row because as Chansey pointed out, there is where the real rubber hits the road with regular blind people who often struggle to purchase even basic access tech for their use. I hope more of the developers of new AT will consider attending the NFB National Convention as they will get a real-world reaction to their products from many prospective end users."
Well, that's amazing, Carl, forty-seven NFB conventions will be good to get your reminiscences sometime and I presume I'll see you in New Orleans. Carl continues, "Now about exercise equipment. I don't have an elliptical recommendation, but I want to highlight the accessibility of the Concept2 rowing machine, whether it's iPhone app, the monitor is mostly accessible to blind rowers. I have been using this machine since 2010 and I'm at least partly responsible for the two machines in our workout room. The last time I visited the National Center, I brought the monitor from my own machine, connected it to the one at the Center, and did my workout just as I do at home.
The company, Concept2, is a small business and the people there have a basic knowledge of the voiceover and talk-back screen readers and can help a blind person to access their products. In the old days when I used a program on my Windows laptop, they were able to help me with it. I strongly recommend their rowing machines and other equipment from this company for any blind person who wants to work out at home. Thanks for your work on the podcast and keep up the good work."
Well, thank you for your very informative email, Carl. Much appreciated. I'm going to go and check out that Concepts 2 Rowing Machine when I get upstairs. This email comes from Rebecca Skipper and she says, "Has NFB considered advising blind consumers to use Facebook on more than one operating system? I think it is a mistake to use one OS as your primary driver. I find it easier to post Facebook comments and share articles from the PC and browse and like FB posts on my iPhone. There are times when an app might work better on the phone than on the PC.
It isn't enough just to complain about how inaccessible an app is. Sometimes you need to have a task completed in a professional environment and there is not enough time to complain about accessibility challenges. This is why I'm glad I have Aira. I believe we are in a situation where an app or service will never work perfectly on one operating system unless we do a better job of implementing standard accessibility practices that are cross-platform."
Rebecca, thank you for your email. I think the answer to your question is that there are questions here of pragmatism and competency but also equality. And in the context of your question, I think it's important to remember that there are people out there who do not find this technology intuitive and that's the case whether somebody is blind or whether they're sighted. There are some people who take to technology and they're quite comfortable working with multiple platforms and working out when something isn't working well on one to try the same thing on the other and sometimes they will get lucky.
There's a lot of fatigue that comes with that, but it also is setting a pretty high bar of technological proficiency for people. Now, some people won't have difficulty doing it, but there are a lot of people who become blind later in life. They're becoming familiar with access technology for the first time and maybe for various reasons, they choose not to use a touchscreen. If something is inaccessible to any of us, it should be unacceptable to all of us.
If a sighted person is able to choose one platform and use something like Facebook on it successfully, then that's what we should be aiming for in the case of blind people. But that said, if you are in a professional situation and you absolutely have to get the job done, sometimes you do go to those extra lengths and you have multiple platforms and you somehow get the job done and you use Aira or whatever it takes. But these companies are large corporations and it's not unreasonable for us to request that something be fully accessible on a range of platforms.
Here's a woman in a hurry, Amanda Lacey, and she says, "I listen to all my YouTube subscriptions at double speed just like my podcasts because listening at normal speed is painfully slow. This month, YouTube has broken the playback speed adjuster in the iOS app. You get to this control by playing a video and double tapping more actions, then double tapping playback speed. When this option worked, it would show speeds ranging from 0.5x to 2x. Now it only shows 1x, making it completely pointless. I've stopped using YouTube since I can't stand taking twice as long to get through content. Please tell Google to fix this. Thanks."
We will. I'll check this out, Amanda, to see if it might've been addressed in a subsequent update, but if we find that it's still there, we will have a chat to Google and just make sure that they are aware of the issue. One thing you could do if you really wanted to hear something on YouTube on demand, the very good iOS podcast app called Castro has a feature which I believe requires a premium subscription to their yearly plan, which allows you to sideload YouTube videos.
I like this because it means I can keep YouTube videos in the app where I get all my podcasts. I also get all my NFB-NEWSLINE content into Castro by using the excellent Podable news service that NFB Newsline offers. So my Castro app not only gives me podcasts, but also all the latest news that I want to consume, and I can send YouTube clips there as well. It's one of the reasons why Castro is such a powerful app for iOS. So you could sideload YouTube clips to Castro and then speed up your podcasts in Castro. It has a very good speed acceleration algorithm.
Let's go back to Innosearch. We featured Innosearch some time ago on Access On, and it does appear to be gaining popularity in the blind community. And Cathy Blackburn is writing in about a relatively new innovation from them. She says, "A few weeks ago, Innosearch.ai added the ability to reach the shopping assistant by telephone. The first time I tried it, I was looking for a part for Audley's Electric Shaver." Audley is Cathy's husband.
"I know how to speak carefully and distinctly, but the shopping assistant responded by giving me choices for vacuum cleaners. I abandoned the shop by phone attempt and used the website instead. Today I decided to shop for a battery for my Victor Reader Stream 2. I decided to give the phone number a try again. On the second try, the battery came up as the third item on the list. I added it to my cart and asked the system to go check out. Stripe handles that part of the transaction.
Stripe asked me for my address. No matter how slowly and carefully I spoke each digit, the system consistently missed the zero in my address. I guess it doesn't like four-digit addresses. I again abandoned the call and went back to the Innosearch website. Imagine my disappointment upon not finding the battery in my cart. Now that I think of it, I should have just asked, 'buy it now.' I did write to Innosearch about today's experience, but I haven't heard back yet. How have other listeners done with shopping Innosearch by phone?"
Good to hear from you, Cathy. I think this is definitely a work in progress. It's a bold initiative and if they can continue to refine this, it's just very significant, the idea that people who are not computer users or smartphone users can shop over 500,000 retailers by phone with a simple voice interface, it's a pretty compelling value proposition right there. But I did find some issues.
I was writing an article for the Braille Monitor a week or so ago, and I really did put this through its paces and I found similar issues. It didn't matter how clearly I said Zoom H6 essential, it didn't seem to like that and I wasn't able to bring the product up. But I hope it evolves over time and improves over time because it's such an exciting concept. Let's just show you how this works and if you want to try it, you can call 855-Shop-GPT, which is 855-746-7478. If you are outside of the United States but in a country that Innosearch is serving, then you can go to the Innosearch AI website and find out about local numbers where you are, but let's give this a try. Call 855-746-7478.
Speaker 6: Calling 855-746-7478.
Innosearch: Hi. I'm Innosearch... Hi, I'm Innosearch, your personal shopping assistant here to simplify your shopping experience. Just let me know what you need and I'll handle product searches, finding past orders, cart management, and payment. Your cart and shipping address are linked to your phone number, so if you're disconnected, simply redial to continue. How can I help you today?
Jonathan Mosen: Search for Samson Q9U microphone.
Innosearch: Please hold on while I search for Samson's microphone for you. This may take a moment. I found 71 products. The top three are one, X5 violin wireless system, black, 230.99 dollars by eBay. Two, Samson Sock USP analog dynamic broadcasting, recording microphone cardio mic, 139.95 dollars by Amazon. Three, Samson Broadcast Dynam [inaudible 00:48:48] microphone 146.95 dollars by eBay. Do you want to add any of them to your cart?
Jonathan Mosen: Tell me about option two.
Innosearch: Please wait while I look for details. Option two is the Samson Sock USP Analog Dynamic Broadcasting, recording, microphone, cardio, and mic. It captures studio-quality sound with a color and USBC connection. Rated 4.2 by 549 reviewers on Amazon. Great for recording, podcasting, or streaming. It offers crystal clear sound, built-in controls, and sturdy construction. Price, 139.95 dollars, free delivery and 30-day return. View more details here. [inaudible 00:49:36]. Would you like to add this to your cart?
Jonathan Mosen: Can you describe the microphone to me? What does it look like?
Innosearch: A microphone [inaudible 00:49:46] featuring a sturdy DICAST construction. It has a professional look with a matte black finish, a classic cylindrical shape and include a foam windscreen. Here's an image of it, GT medium Amazon, 261-foot coal, [inaudible 00:50:01].
Jonathan Mosen: Add it to my cart.
Innosearch: I have successfully added one of Samson SOCK USP Analog Dynamic Broadcasting recording microphone cardio mic to your cart.
Jonathan Mosen: Check out.
Innosearch: To summarize, you have one item in your cart totaling 139.95 dollars, not including taxes. I am now transferring you to Stripe for payment. Please redial if you need to reach me again.
Speaker 11: You are now on Stripe Checkout. Please state your full shipping address. For example, 1 Main Street, Brooklyn, New York, 11201. You can also hang up, text the address to 855-746-7478, and redial to continue.
Jonathan Mosen: Well, that's about as far as we can go with that. I'm pretty sure that that microphone that I added to the cart is the Samsung Q9U that I'm looking for. It didn't sound like it was speaking that model number, but the reason why I know this is that I know it's currently 139 dollars at Amazon because I purchased a couple of them to use for our webinars here at CENA at the National Federation of the Blind, so I know they're 139 dollars on Amazon and I know that they have USB and XLR, so pretty sure that I got the product that I wanted even though the name sounded a little bit odd.
But as you can see, the concept is there. It's a very friendly experience and it's great to be able to do this by voice, not just for those people who may be struggling with computers, but it's just convenient if you can walk around and do that shopping by phone. All sorts of people benefit from that experience. So that is a very quick look at the shop-by-phone option from Innosearch. You can get to it in the United States at 855-Shop-GPT. Let us know how you get on with it.
Here's Mike Bullis who says, "To comment about Thomas's Netflix problem. I have a Samsung S95C TV and have also found some irregularities with the Netflix app. For about a year, the only way I could use Netflix was to do as he did, turn off accessibility features and then turn them on again while in the Netflix app. Recently, I discovered that if I access the Netflix app and just hit enter to accept my profile, the app began to talk.
However, this appears to only work sometimes, not always. The Samsung screen reader does work with most apps, although workarounds are necessary. For example, the screen reader reads every annoying piece of information when at the beginning of a show, meaning that you can't hear the first thirty to sixty seconds or so of program audio content. The only work around I found for this is to hit the mute button twice quickly, ending the annoying reading and bringing back the program audio at the correct level.
But sometimes hitting the mute button twice quickly doesn't work because the TV only accepts the first mute press, not the second one. Accessible television is still clearly a work in progress. Blindness is all about finding alternatives to doing things without sight that the average person does with sight, but finding these alternatives can take a lot of time, frustration, and problem-solving. It sure can take the fun out of jumping right into your favorite activity. Thanks to you and the CENA team for all that you do." Thank you, Mike. Good to hear from you with that handy tip.
This email comes from Danny and says, "Dear Jonathan, I recently listened to one of your previous podcast episodes where you discussed the One Password app. I found it very informative. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. Unfortunately, I wasn't quite able to catch how you actually bring up or engage the One Password program when needed, especially within the Windows 10 environment while using JAWS.
If you don't mind, may I ask if you could kindly shed some light on how to effectively use a password manager program like 1Password Bitwarden or Robo Form with JAWS on Windows? For example, are there specific shortcut keys or accessible methods to bring up the program when we need to fill in or create a password? I really appreciate any tips or guidance you can offer."
Well, the answer varies depending on the application that you're using because they will all have different shortcut keys and different methods for invoking themselves within the browser. What typically happens with a good password manager is that you install the key Password Manager app and then you install an add-on into your browser. So it could be a Chrome extension, it could be something specific for Microsoft Edge. Normally these password managers also have the ability to integrate with Firefox, and that's quite deep integration.
In the case of 1Password eight, which has been the version of one password for some time, once you have this set up, you can be in an edit field, and you simply down arrow in an empty edit field. And when you do that, the one password dialog will come up. If you haven't used 1Password for some time or since you started your computer, you'll be asked to enter your 1Password which unlocks the application. And if that point, if 1Password has something pertinent to the form field, it'll let you fill it in.
For example, if you're on a login field and you have stored your username and password for your website in 1Password, it will know what website you're on, and just by pressing down arrow, it will give you the chance to select and press Enter on that item and it will fill it in, submit the form and log you in. But there is much more than that to a lot of these apps.
So for example, in 1Password, you can store credit card information, other sensitive information, so if you're checking out, you can simply down arrow on a payment field, and more often than not, 1Password will suggest all credit cards that are stored in it. You can just up and down arrow and press Enter, and in the case of a credit card submission, it will say, are you really sure you want to submit this? And you choose, okay, and it fills in all the fields for you.
It is a huge time saver. It's very secure as well, and you can configure 1Password with all its preferences by using shortcut keys. You can just run the 1Password app from the start menu and often it is sitting in your system tray as well. I've used 1Password for a very long time. I'm sure that Bitwarden and similar applications work in that kind of way as well. Almost time to go, but before we do that, it's our tech tip segment and we're going to go back to this Netflix subject for this one.
Dennis: Hi, Jonathan. This is Dennis from Huntsville, Alabama. I was calling to help Tom with his Netflix problem on his Fire TV Cube. The problem that I had was on a Fire Stick and whenever I would lose the speech in the Netflix app, you uninstall the app on the device and then reinstall it and sign back in and everything should work well after that. Turning off voiceover and turning it back on sometimes would work, but I found that if I uninstalled Netflix and reinstalled it, it seemed to solve the problem pretty much. So hope that helps Tom and anybody else that has this problem. Really love the podcast, thanks for all you do, and talk to you soon. Thanks, Jonathan.
Jonathan Mosen: Thank you very much for sharing that with us, Dennis. It's much appreciated. That concludes this episode of Access On, the technology podcast of the National Federation of the Blind. To send in a contribution for a future episode, email us, attach an audio clip, or just write it down and send it to [email protected]. That's [email protected]. To keep up to date with Access On, follow us on Mastodon, [email protected]. That's [email protected] on Mastodon.
To subscribe to an announcement-only email list about upcoming episodes, send a blank message to [email protected]. That's [email protected]. To learn more about the National Federation of the Blind, visit our website, nfb.org, or phone us, 410-659-9314. That's 410-659-9314. And be sure to check out the Nation's Blind Podcast right from where you heard this podcast.