This is being provided in a rough-draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings
DANIELLE McCANN: Good afternoon, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us today for our third and final virtual session this afternoon. It is July 5th. We just had a -- a fantastic Board meeting, and we're looking forward to talking with Lia Stone. Lia, thank you so much for being here. Lia is one of the co chairs of our Employment Committee. Do you want to tell us a little about yourself?
LIA STONE: Yeah, sure, thank you so much for having me today. So my name is Lia. My pronouns are she, her, hers. I am one of the, I co-chair the national Employment Committee, was appointed to that position earlier this year. I'm also the first vice president of the New Jersey affiliate and the Director of our youth programs, and as far as professionally, outside of the Federation, I'm a child and adolescent therapist and a freelance tech recruiter.
DANIELLE McCANN: Thank you, Lia. Just bear with us just one second today, everyone. We're just getting everybody situated with interpreting, so thank you for your patience, and Elyse it looks like Hilda is ready to go, is that right?
ELYSE: Yes.
DANIELLE McCANN: And is Donila there?
SPEAKER: Yes, I am here.
DANIELLE McCANN: Okay, she's here but needs to be assigned as -- is it letting you do that, Elise?
ELYSE: No, it wasn't.
DANIELLE McCANN: Okay. And it's still giving you -- it's not giving you the right controls?
ELYSE: No.
DANIELLE McCANN: While you're listening if you want to put some questions in the Q&A for Lia and we'll answer questions as best we can and in just one second we'll see about fixing the interpretation.
ELYSE: We should be good now.
DANIELLE McCANN: Thank you, thank you, thank you. All right, thank you so much everyone for your patience. We are back with you today, and I'm going solo with this interview, so bear with us. Melissa and the rest of the team who normally assist with the virtual sessions are off doing some other things as the Convention ramps. Today tends to be a pretty busy day for rev one so thank you again for being with us and for your patience.
All right, so, Patty, we have a question in the Q&A from Patty that says, the chat is disabled and yes, Patty the chat is disabled because Q&A is where we're taking questions so just to clarify that. So Lia thank you so much again for being here and for giving us a little bit of your background and we're talking employment today so I have one of the questions I have for you is: Can you tell our listeners how the job fair went? I understand it went really, really well.
LIA STONE: Yeah, it went really, really well. We had I think 30 employers. We had a few last-minute employers of course so I don't have the exact number, but I think we came out at 30 and lots of people. I was walking around and kind of listening to conversations people were having and it all sounded really good, really promising, I talked to quite a few of the employers towards the end and they said it was just, they were just so happy because they met so many fantastic potential applicants.
I don't know the final number on how many job seekers we had because we ended up having over 50 walk ups in addition to the 170 people who had pre registered so absolutely phenomenal turnout from job seekers. Really amazing diverse group of employers this year. We had some of our Convention sponsors, but we ran the gamut from tech startups to health care to education and the blindness fields, and everything in between. So it went really well.
I even had a few representatives from some companies approach me who were not at the job fair approach me who said they saw how it was and may want to make sure they get it on it for next year, so I think that was quite a success.
DANIELLE McCANN: That's wonderful. You know, employment is one of the barriers that blind people frequently face, or finding employment I should say, right? And a lot of it has to do with low expectations.
I'll tell y'all a quick story, when I was first looking for work, I was fresh out of college and I went on an interview and the HR lady, it was like a paper bag selling company and all you were doing was customer service calls and she said you know, I've asked you all the questions that I have about your résumé and your background but I just want to know, is a caretaker coming with you? Because I'm not sure, like, if you're going to be able to go to the bathroom unassisted and we can't provide that. So just frustrating.
Lia, have you experienced or heard any stories like that before?
LIA STONE: Oh, my God, absolutely. So my background is in clinical social work so I experience this a lot after I finished my MSW I went to Colorado center and when I came back to New Jersey looking for work I experienced this a lot and I know probably a lot of Federationists would not be surprised to hear this but many people are surprised to learn that social workers are not the best with disability and the capability of blind people so I encountered a lot of like, you're just so inspirational and I'm like, okay, but could we like talk about what I'm here to apply for, what I'm here to interview for, right?
And that's something that unfortunately, that's not industry specific. Those low expectations are across every industry. I will say I am heartened; I've certainly heard some experiences from folks who have had really positive experiences disclosing blindness prior to the interview stage or during the interview stage, and having it be met with either neutrality or enthusiasm, and I've been really heartened to hear that more and more.
I will say I had that experience twice last year and I didn't -- it was so funny because I've been -- I got my first job at 14, and I've been blind since I was 11 so I'm not new to working and I'm not new to ridiculous things employers say or think about blindness. But last year, I had two interviews. I interviewed -- I did a contract recruiting role at an AI startup and during the interview, it was virtual, so the hiring manager had no idea I was blind. She asked why I was blind. This was for a research company. I talked about how as a blind person how much I benefited from machine learning, Kurzweil and OCR, all that stuff so it's important that artificial intelligence advances so well. She's like that's so cool. Do you have experience with LinkedIn recruiter? And kept it moving.
When I interviewed at the telehealth agency I'm working at now virtual, interview no idea and I don't remember how it came up in the interview but the recruiter was like wow, that is so phenomenal, and we've really been trying to ramp up our diversity efforts so that our clinicians are matching the diversity of our clinicians matches the diversity of our clients and that's just so cool. And I had -- both of those experiences were so wildly out of bounds for me, so IoT heard similar store Fridays from folks in the past couple of years.
So I think the tides, I hope this could be a little bit of optimism on my part, but I hope the tides are slowly starting to turn especially with all the emphasis that we've seen in recent years on diversity, equity, and inclusion programs in different industries.
DANIELLE McCANN: That's really heartening to hear because I work at the National Office. And I feel like that is one of the very few places that's like oh, you're blind, that's a good thing.
LIA STONE: Right.
DANIELLE McCANN: So it's good to hear that more places are being more open minded. We have a question from Jackie in Texas I believe so Jackie wants to know: What was the hardest part about getting your job? And what are some ways that you overcame your fear or nervousness?
LIA STONE: Well, I will say overcoming fear and nervousness I will say, needing to pay the rent is quite a motivator. So I, you know, I talked about this a little bit during our seeking success seminar yesterday but I started working at 14, all my siblings did so we grew up quite poor so I don't have that family financial support to fall back on so not working has not ever really been an option and that has its draw backs for sure but it is quite a motivator to get over the nervousness and swallow your pride and do what you got to do. I don't like hustle culture, but I hustle because I have to and so that's why I have a couple of jobs all at once.
And the first part of that question was how did I get my current position I think?
DANIELLE McCANN: Yes, yeah.
LIA STONE: So a couple of different ways, because I have, and I'd forgot a third gig that I also do so my role as a therapist first of all, you do need a Master's Degree and you do need credentials and all that stuff so assuming you already know that, I am part of a number of different groups for social workers and specifically I'm a member of the national Association for social workers. I'm a member of different just groups on LinkedIn and Facebook for social workers and somebody had posted that this agency was looking specifically for New Jersey licensed clinicians and so I basically networking is how I got it.
So I talked to her. I applied. Initially they were like, oh, sorry, we don't actually need New Jersey people and then a couple months later they reached back out, and they were like: Oh, my God, we need New Jersey people. Are you still interested?
So that's how I got one job. And the freelance tech recruiting, I went through a tech recruiting bootcamp. The program was called Recruit Rise, and that was in 2022, and that really got me connected to a lot of different tech companies, especially in the startup space, and so I got connected to this company that does freelancing with early stage startups through them and I also do accessibility testing at AudioEye, and accessibility testing is something a lot of folks are interested in, in the blind community, and I -- that one I will say I just got lucky. I don't even remember the amount of time that passed from the moment I applied to the moment they called me. It was long enough that forgot that I applied.
So I'm talking like at least 6 months. So that I just got straight lucky on.
But networking and really going for opportunities when they are presented is really how I got the opportunities that currently have.
DANIELLE McCANN: That's awesome. It's also, too, like, some parts of it are kismet, like, right place, right time. That's a part of it too, so the way that I got my first job was I lived in a city where there were workshops so an NIB agency, and I just kind of moved up from there. I started on the assembly floor, and I left there being a social media marketing associate, and President Riccobono had gotten my résumé and we talked, and I came here.
So definitely networking, this position wouldn't have been possible without that networking, because I didn't know him. He'd never met me, so it was pretty cool.
ELYSE: And I know people are kind of like, I know sometimes people roll their eyes like networking, but I really can't stress enough how essential it is. I will say the job I successfully got when I came back from Colorado, my first Convention was 2017 just down the road, and that is where I met my dear friend Carlie Mullen, who at the time was working in New Jersey's transition program.
We became friends and stayed in touch. When she was getting ready to go to Louisiana Tech called me and she's like, hey, I'm going to grad school. I don't know if you're back from Colorado yet or if you're looking for a job. I remember saying you're a social worker, and I thought you'd be interested in this, and I ended up working there 5 years. That's where I developed my love of doing employment related work, so networking, that was certainly a little bit of a right place, right time thing because that was both our first conventions, but networking really is just so, so essential. I cannot overstate how important it is to getting a job.
DANIELLE McCANN: Yeah, definitely, especially too when you network with folks who are connected in different channels and who already believe in your capacity and if they recommend you for a position they're not going to say she's great but she's blind, so I don't know if you want to take that chance. They're going to just say, she's great, you know?
LIA STONE: Absolutely.
DANIELLE McCANN: So Miriam says hello, I am a social worker as well so hi. Miriam. Shout out to social workers.
LIA STONE: Woo!
DANIELLE McCANN: Preston wants to know what's your favorite part about your job?
LIA STONE: Okay, that's tough. This is the hard part about juggling multiple gigs so I will say the tech recruiting, I just love helping people find jobs. I get a lot of satisfaction out of it, and I don't think working should be your whole life. In fact I'm a firm believer it should not be your whole life. This is very do as I say not as I do clearly, but I love helping people, getting people finding the right fit for somebody, oh, man, that's just so satisfying. The accessibility testing I will say I feel a lot of things about that because I still have a lot of feelings about overlays in general and we're not going to get into that but I do enjoy that
I'm contributing to making a product that it's here to stay and I do like that I get to help ensure that it is working and functional and good for blind people. And my job as a therapist, my God, I work with teenagers, and middle school students. The youngest I work with is 9 and I work with adults as well. But working, I don't know, working with kids is such a treat. Like, they are very funny. I have gotten called a cringe millennial on a monthly basis since I started, and, you know, when the light bulb moment goes off for them and they get it and they realize that, okay, I need to start being nicer to myself in my own head.
Or: I do deserve to be treated better than I'm being treated by my group of friends. Or I don't deserve to be bullied, whatever it is. When that moment goes off and they finally realize, I am worth more than what I'm getting or the way I'm living or whatever it is, that is phenomenal and being able to walk with somebody on their journey towards healing has always been really meaningful for me. That's why I could never, no matter how many times I pivot to doing other things I can never fully leave social work because that is just a phenomenal thing to be a part of.
DANIELLE McCANN: That's so cool. And it ties really nicely so we received a comment in from Paul and Paul says he's trying to work in tech support but because he's blind and has cerebral palsy he keeps getting told he doesn't have the skills so what would he do? And I'll also let you give your thoughts but keep trying. That's the main thing I'd advise. Don't lose hope and keep trying but Lia if you want to add to that.
LIA STONE: I would definitely say keep trying. One thing I would also say, so I know cerebral palsy, there's some manual dexterity issues that can happen there and I assume that's part of maybe what the issue is but see what other kinds of assistive tech you can use to do tech support. There's a lot of tech support opportunities now which are not phone based which I know we've felt the frustration of which we have wanted tech support and can only do a chat so there's a lot of that so definitely keep an eye out for opportunities that may be more chat based, if the issue is speaking or if the issue is dexterity, maybe figuring out some assistive tech solutions and focusing on phone based support. I will also say, you can't deny that, we can't deny that credentials are important. 70% of jobs still require a college degree even for jobs that objectively don't need a college degree. That being a secretary, you don't need a college degree, I don't care what anybody tells you. That's absurd.
But tech support, there are credentials that get you taken more seriously. Google has one you can do through cower Sarah. They say it's a 6 months program, but I've heard people who are unemployed and aren't currently juggling a bunch of things can knock it out in a month and a half, two months. It's not a free program. They offer scholarships. It's not super expensive either.
But some kind of credential, something to put on your LinkedIn, even if it's a certificate or associate level degree that's really helpful. And I have to plug LinkedIn. I don't love LinkedIn because it makes me feel like we're all treating ourselves as investment properties, but LinkedIn is where it's at especially if you wanted a job and especially if you want a job in things like the tech sphere, that is where the recruiters are and so get your LinkedIn up to date.
If you can get some credentials, that's going to be even better and that will make you more competitive and do some research something I encourage people to do, LinkedIn is really great for doing research because you can go to a company and you can go to the People Tab and you can see everybody who says they work at that company. And there may not always work of course. I certainly have way too many LinkedIn messages that are currently unread because when you're a recruiter on LinkedIn, people blast you.
But reach out to people who have roles you want or roles you're interested in, in companies you want to work for and be like hey, I would love 15 minutes of your time. I'm really interested in getting into this company. Could I ask you a little bit about what your day to day is like or what kind of software you guys use or what your experiences have been, how you got your foot in the door here. LinkedIn is a good free resource as a job seeker. You don't need LinkedIn premium for this but make use of that resource as well.
DANIELLE McCANN: That's great advice. LinkedIn is something worth investing some time and keeping your profile up to date. You never know who is looking at your profile and what skills you might match. So let's see. We have a couple more questions. So Lauren is saying: How does a job fair at a National Convention work? And then a follow up to that is: Relocation expected or are they mostly remote, mostly remote positions?
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LIA STONE: Great question, so the answer is yes. It's both. So this year for example we had the Rosen company, which was really exciting because I know we have a lot of members who are interested in hospitality. And of course, the Rosen properties are all in Orlando, and if you are doing hospitality work that is in person so there's no remote way to do housekeeping or you know being a banquet server or something.
But we have a mix. We had -- there were some companies there that were offering relocation assistance. I know the Lighthouse in Seattle was there, and they offered relocation assistance, as did Beyond Vision, but there were companies there that had remote positions. APH had a remote position. CBS Health. There were definitely a few others. And then there were some that were extremely local, like Rosen, so that was really for people who wanted to be in Orlando or were already living here. So it's a mix of different types of opportunities.
DANIELLE McCANN: Awesome, thank you. And thank you to everyone who is asking questions. And so getting back just so the Employment Committee, the big thing that you do if I understand correctly is the job fair. That's the big annual Convention piece is the employment seminar and the job fair. But what other stuff do y'all do throughout the year?
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LIA STONE: So we actually have three job fairs a year so if you missed your shot for the job fair on Wednesday, fear not. We have 2 more coming up. So we are doing a virtual job fair in October. This year it will be October 22nd. And then at Washington seminar we do a much smaller job fair. So I will say that's a lot, because considering the location, that's a lot of federal agencies who participate in that one, so your IRS, your CIA, your government publishing office, et cetera, et cetera. So we do two other job fairs, and then throughout the year, we -- so we are working on doing other different things.
So this year, because I am new, I'm new to the Committee, I'm new as a co chair, Jennifer and I are really working on trying to revamp things so that they make sense for, you know, the job climate in 2024.
And so we've been talking about putting together different webinars on different topics. We always try to help find folks for the Where the Blind Work webinars, so people are seeing a diversity of different positions and industries that blind folks are in. And we also work, are working to do more outreach to employers, because there is a lot of education, obviously, that's needed for employers, right? We know so many employers do not believe in the capability of blind people because it is pure ignorance in many cases.
And so they need to be educated, and so we work -- we have a great employer outreach subcommittee, and so that has really been ramping up lately and has been working to build connections and have those educational conversations. I know we just had a really good one with Target, and so, you know, we do a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff that isn't really, may not be noticed by the membership, but hopefully the fruits of that is something that you will see in your own individual job searches. And of course, we do the preparation webinars in person as well.
So before every career fair, we have a preparation webinar for job seekers. Normally at National Convention we have a job seeker seminar. This year we revamped it, so it was called the Seeking Success seminar, so we focused on two key areas for breakout sessions within that: Career exploration, and entrepreneurship, working for yourself, independent contracting, small business, or Randolph Sheppard, all that stuff, and we had a great -- we heard from Jim Portillo on Upward Mobility. We had a great panel on the pros and cons of remote work because everybody thinks they want a remote job and it's not -- there are many cons not considered to that. And it's also not as easy as one might thing to find a remote job.
DANIELLE McCANN: Yeah, exactly.
LIA STONE: Yeah, it really is not, but yeah.
DANIELLE McCANN: That's awesome. So a couple more questions for you about the, just kind of the work you do outside of Convention because y'all are busy, busy folks. So a couple of questions we got in the chat was: How can one register for the job fair coming up in October?
LIA STONE: So be on the lookout for that form. I am blanking on the date, and I don't want to make Nikki Jackson insane, so I'm not going to guess. I would say keep an eye out on your emails, I will say later in the summer, and the registration, the announcement, the registration form, all that stuff will be going out.
DANIELLE McCANN: So you can also on the NFB website, that's nfb.org, there's at the bottom of the Home page is upcoming events, news and that kind of thing and so that information will be posted there as well so keep an eye on that. I'm just looking at more questions here. And then you have, I'm sorry, a Listserv as well, right?
LIA STONE: We do. It is for -- okay, sorry, we have two Listservs. I'm on too many NFB Listservs already. Yeah, like, just straight up. I mean, we do have a job listings Listserv, so if you go to NFBnet.org, I think the email address, Dave Andrews, don't kill me if I'm wrong. It's job [email protected]. You can sign up for that. Emails go out sometimes multiple times a day. That's another Listserv I have way too many emails for. But there's jobs posted there all of the time, and that is a Listserv you definitely want to join if you're looking for work.
BRILEY O'CONNOR: That would be NFBnet.org. And there's a link that says join or drop listservs, and there's zillions, so, so many listservs. So let's see, so there's a question asking what platform we use for the virtual job fairs. I believe we're doing Zoom.
LIA STONE: Yeah, it will be Zoom again because that's the most accessible of the options.
DANIELLE McCANN: Awesome. A couple more questions for you here, Lia. So sorry, I'm actually sitting in one of the ballrooms, so we're just hearing some ambient noise. All right, so one question is: What is your best advice for job seekers?
LIA STONE: Okay, my best advice is: Give yourself Grace, because this is hard. And I know that is a very therapist answer but here we are. But truly, it is quite hard, and it is quite demoralizing, and there are some sectors of the economy right now that are not doing very well at all as far as jobs are concerned. Unfortunately, tech is one of them. But -- and there are some that are booming. Give yourself grace, treat yourself with compassion, because if you start beating yourself up and you start that negative self talk of, I'm not working, I can't get a job, I'm so useless, oh my God, I can't do anything, that is only going to give yourself more problems.
So I guess let's put that under the category of get your head right for this because it's a marathon, not a sprint. And you do have to treat it like a job. You do need to spend a couple of hours a day minimum. You really should be treating finding a job like a part time job so just like if you were working, give yourself grace. You treat yourself with compassion. And that will make you much better prepared to handle the marathon that is finding a job.
DANIELLE McCANN: I love that, I love that so much because it can be really demoralizing especially when you hear no after no. What is it about me? People hate me or whatever negative self talk you could spiral into, so thank you for that.
LIA STONE: Absolutely.
DANIELLE McCANN: On the flip side of that question, what advice would you give to employers as far as hiring blind people?
LIA STONE: So to employers, I feel like I'm put on the spot or a diplomatic answer.
(Laughter)
So to employers, you know, I would say that, number one, there is no DEI without disability. So if your DEI programs don't, and your DEI employment practices don't include us, you're not doing, you know, what they're intended purpose is for. And I would also advise employers to instead of thinking about the accommodations or the what ifs or the "how are we doing to do this," think about how good and useful it is going to be for you to hire people who are great problem solvers, people who are generally pretty darn tenacious, right? Because we have to be in a sighted world. We have to be good problem solvers. We have to have tenacity and that is, unless -- I can't think of any company, any industry, where those skills are not prized and valued.
And I would really just advise employers to, instead of thinking about all the ways this is not going to work, think about all of the ways that this is going to benefit your company.
DANIELLE McCANN: That's very well said. That's a great answer. You did great with the diplomatic answer.
LIA STONE: Thank you.
DANIELLE McCANN: Yeah. Can you remind us again, we had a question in the Q&A about the job fair that may be more government employers would be maybe looking for employees. Could you let us know
when -- that's the October 1?
LIA STONE: So the one at the Washington seminar is where we have the most government employers, the most, a lot of federal agencies because it's in Washington, D.C. We almost certainly will still have a few at the virtual career fair in October. The IRS as people may or may not know, in the, I forgot, I'm blanking -- in the Infrastructure Bill that gave the IRS more funding, they are really ramping up hiring so I know they're trying to hire a lot and I'm certain they'll be at our October career fair.
I know last year, the CIA was there as well so there will probably be a couple but if federal employment is what you're looking for, your best bet for the most variety of federal agencies will probably be Washington Seminar.
DANIELLE McCANN: All righty. Well, it looks like the Q&A has slowed down just a little bit. I know we went over just a little from the Board meeting, so I just want to ask if you have any final words for the folks listening who are looking for jobs.
LIA STONE: So I mean, again, like, I know this is hard. I know it is brutal and I know it's especially a lot of the news about the economy and stuff, I know that can make it all that much more frightening, but I would encourage everybody again, you've got to have a good mind set. Do as much as you can with what you have. I will say LinkedIn is your friend. LinkedIn really is your friend. Make a LinkedIn profile if you don't have one. Everybody can add me, because the way the LinkedIn algorithm works, the more connections you have, the easier it is to connect with people you're not connected to and on and on so if you look for Lia Stone, Stone like a rock. LSW, you can find me and let me know you're from the Federation and I'll be happy to accept you.
But get yourself a LinkedIn. Make yourself a really solid profile that demonstrates your skills, what you have to offer, because you also want recruiters reaching out to you, right? Like, that's part of it.
So a headset -- or mindset really important, LinkedIn, really important. Networking, really, really important. Build your network. And talk to people. Do not be afraid to ask people for connections or introductions, and just keep at it.
I really, I know it's really hard. I went through two layoffs in 2022. I get it completely. And the start of 2023 was the first time I was unemployed in almost 20 years. So I totally get it. It is scary and it's hard out there but there are industries hiring. State and federal governments are very much hiring. Do your research. Look to industries that maybe you didn't consider. And step out, if that means stepping out of your comfort zone a little bit, do it. You know, do it. Maybe you didn't think that going into working for a federal agency was for you, but the IRS looks like they're hiring in just about every single field office across the country and get a union job with those union benes, that's what everybody wants. It's hard stuff but everything I've said so far I hope it is helpful and yeah, I wish everybody looking for work the best of luck.
It is hard out there for everybody, blind or sighted, but you got this.
DANIELLE McCANN: Thank you so much and I'll just give a couple reminders here before we end for today So there is an email address. It's [email protected], and the wonderful Nikki Jackson, who was unable to join us this afternoon, but Nikki has a good handle on that email box so you can send questions there, or you can send thoughts, suggestions. If you are maybe wanting to speak at one of the Where the Blind Work seminars, feel free to let Nikki know as well.
So that's [email protected]. You can also browse our website, nfb.org, for more information and then to join the Listserv it's nfbnet.org. Lia, thank you so much for being here with us today. We really appreciate you taking some time to talk with us.
LIA STONE: Absolutely. It was my pleasure. This is one of my favorite topics so happy to have a chat about it.
DANIELLE McCANN: Everyone, thank you so much for joining us today. This was the last virtual exclusive event, so the events going forward are going to be streamed, so we're looking forward to general sessions. The banquet and the preshows that are going to precede those general sessions, so thank you all again. Thank you to our captioner, to our interpreters and to Elise, who has been our Zoom host extraordinaire, and we will check everyone out later. Thank you again for being here. Have a great day.