This is being provided in a rough-draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Okay, good morning, everyone. My name is Anthonya James. I am an advocacy attorney at Paralyzed Veterans of America. Today, I will be giving the presentation on transportation for people with disabilities: Updates and future forecasts
My colleague, Danica Gonzalves, is actually out right now. She had an emergency medical situation come up. So I will be taking over today.
Usually, Danica is the expert in a lot of the areas for transportation. So there may be questions that I am unable to answer in the moment, but if anyone, after the presentation, if anyone wants to talk or email me, we can discuss things further.
And I can get an answer back to you ASAP.
I guess we can get started.
Okay, sorry it's a little bit cut off on the screen, but these slides are available on the symposium agenda website. And all of the hyperlinks are included, and you can easily go to the websites in the hyperlinks.
So for our agenda today. We will be discussing air travel regulations and laws, autonomous vehicles, rails, wheelchairs and micro-mobility devices, the evolution of adaptive sports equipment, the importance of new adaptive devices, the impact of executive orders and memorandums that have come out recently and how those will affect the disability advocacy and community at large.
And then we will end with some Q&A.
So just a guide for our discussion, for the air travel rules and laws. we will be discussing the Air Carrier Access Act of 1986, the 2024 FAA Reauthorization Act, -- I'll reintroduce myself. Hello. My name is Anthonya James.
I'm an advocacy attorney at Paralyzed Veterans of America. I am a Black woman wearing a navy suit, white shirt, and I have dark curly hair.
So in our discussion of air travel rules and laws, we will also be discussing the 2024 final rule: Refunds and other consumer protections, and the 2024 Final Rule: Ensuring Safe Accommodations for Air Travelers with Disabilities using Wheelchairs.
All of the slides will be hyperlinked, so you can find all the websites that are hyperlink in the slides on the symposium agenda website.
So first, we'll discuss the Air Carrier Access Act of 1986, or the ACAA The ACAA prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in air travel. Under the ACAA, the airlines cannot refuse transportation to people with disabilities, require advance notice of travel, and charge fees for disability services and accommodations. Air carriers are required to provide prompt assistance with boarding, deplaning, and connections, train personnel who deal with traveling public to proficiency on ACAA and procedures.
And have a complaint resolution officer for disability related issues at the airport.
Some cases that have come out of violations, airlines committing violations of the ACAA, there has been a United Airlines settlement. So in 2023, the Department of Transportation entered into a settlement -- or the United Airlines entered into a settlement with the Department of Transportation. The settlement came from allegations of United Airlines mishandling and damaging passengers' wheelchairs.
The settlement enables passengers to find flights that -- or United Airlines had to create and provide a flight filter for wheelchair storage, so the flight filters enable passengers to find flights that will accommodate their specific personal wheelchairs. There's also the American Airlines fine of 50 million dollars for ACAA violations against wheelchair users.
In 2024, the Department of Transportation announced a 50 million dollars penalty against American Airlines for serious violations of laws that protecting airline passengers with disabilities from 2019 to 2023.
Some of these violations included unsafe physical assistance and failure to provide prompt wheelchair assistance.
Next, the 2024 FAA Reauthorization Act. It was signed into law -- oh, yes, in May of 2024 The reauthorization runs through fiscal year 2028 So under this Reauthorization Act is a required rulemaking on enhanced training for personnel who physically assist passengers or stow wheelchairs and scooters, seating accommodations, evacuation standards, and aircraft accessibility.
I know that a lot of our members have consistently complained about personnel who has to assist them in entering the aircraft, in seating.
And a lot of times they can be, you know, very rough, not only with the people themselves, but also the wheelchairs.
The Reauthorization Act also requires a personnel refresher training every 18 months. Carriers most post the dimensions of the cargo hold for stowing wheelchairs and scooters. Studies are being conducted on wheelchair and cabin restraint systems. The Access Board must publish accessibility standards for airline kiosks, websites, and online applications. And in terms of continued and future advocacy, it's necessary to ensure that the laws required regulatory deadlines are being met, and enforcement of new requirements.
So we would like to think, you know, in a perfect world, the rule comes out. And, you know, everyone just follows the rule and it's great and sunshine and rainbows and everything
But unfortunately that's not the case. We definitely have to continue advocating to make sure the entities are, you know, holding up their end of the rule, what they're required to do.
ATTENDEE: Sorry, so, when are the FAA's regs coming out, or have they already?
ANTHONYA JAMES: It already has come out.
ATTENDEE: That's what I thought, thanks.
ATTENDEE: But all of the activities of the advisory committee have been suspended pending further notice.. so.. who knows when the next ones are coming out?
ANTHONYA JAMES: Right...
ATTENDEE: Anyone know when the -- anyone have any insight on when the committee might start doing its thing again?
ATTENDEE: I wish.
ATTENDEE: This is Zainab through an interpreter. I got that same email that you're referencing that all committee activities are suspended for now until we hear further.
ATTENDEE: Okay, so no one has any other inside info on maybe when that might happen?
ZAINAB: No insider information here.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Not here either.
ATTENDEE: Thank you.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Next we'll be talking about the final rule on refunds and other consumer protections in April of 2024
Also I gave this announcement at the beginning, but my colleague Danica isn't here. She had an emergency medical situation. So she's not able to be here today. So I'm taking over everything. Danica is the senior advocacy attorney, so she is, you know, more of an expert in certain areas. So if there's ever a question that I'm not able to answer in the moment, I can always get back to you via email or also when Danica comes back, communicating questions that were had and for her to take over.
So under this final rule, the final rule requires airlines to offer automatic refunds when there is a significant change to the passenger's flight itinerary. Some of these significant changes include major changes to the departure or arrival times, changes to the departure or arrival airports, or adding layovers.
There are also provisions that only apply to people with disabilities and others, such as their companions, on the same reservation. If there needs to be a substituted aircraft, a downgraded class or service, or a change to the layover airport does not have a needed accessibility feature, that was a really big part of it. If another aircraft that they are being switched to doesn't have an accessibility feature that is necessary for them, then they have to receive their refund.
The next final rule -- the final rule on ensuring safe, dignified air travel for wheelchair users, it was published in December of 2024 The Department of Transportation published it to strengthen the regulation, implementing the Air Carrier Access Act. Under the final rule, disability services must be provided in a safe and dignified manner.
The final rule clarifies deplaning and planing assistance, enhances training for people who physically assist passengers with disabilities or handle mobility devices. When we were writing the comments, it was very important to include those training standards in there, because like I said before, people can be very, you know, rough when handling people and their adaptive equipment.
ATTENDEE: People have died.. because they were not transferred the correct way.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Yes.
ATTENDEE: Yeah.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Yes.
ATTENDEE: I've only been dropped, never...
ATTENDEE: It's terrible.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Yeah, sorry, I'll drink some water...
So the final rule covers mishandled wheelchairs, loaner wheelchairs, passenger's choices for repairs and replacements.
So what we are worried about in the future when it comes to this final rule are court and regulatory challenges. It says in the final rule that if a court were to invalidate one or more of the final rule's rules as finalized, then the Department of Transportation's intent is that the remaining provision should remain in effect to the greatest extent possible. So that's what we're working with right now. So we're making sure, or at least trying to keep our eye out for any court or regulatory challenges to the final rule.
Some of the effective dates: The general provisions and definitions, January 17, 2025, which has already passed. The effective date for the enhanced training standards is June 17, 2026.
And the FAA Reauthorization also includes rulemaking requirements.
And let's move on.
So there is still advocacy and work that needs to be done. The ACAA does not provide a private right of action. So people with disabilities cannot enforce their rights under the ACAA through civil litigation in court. That has been something that PVA has advocated for, a private right of action to the ACAA We encourage it -- well, see how that goes -- complaints and referrals to the DOJ for actions -- but I think we can see how that's going right now. There's not much, or anything moving -- yes.
ATTENDEE: So my understanding is that one files either an informal or a formal complaint with DOT, and DOT does not make it easy to find or understand the process for a formal complaint
But that a formal complaint goes through the administrative process.
And if the DOT finds in a way that you object to, you can then go to court on an APA review of the agency action to, you know. If they say no, it was totally fine that they, like, threw you around, or, you know, didn't let you on with your guide dog or what have you. Am I.. is that everyone else's understanding too?
I haven't done this yet. I've like planned to do it
But I'd like to hear, like, no. You're crazy.
That doesn't work, or absolutely. We've done it. No?
Okay, well --
ATTENDEE: I haven't done it yet
But I can say that the Department of Justice Disability Rights Section is receiving complaints, people are answering the phones, there is work happening. We are still under a freeze in terms of new litigation, but that doesn't mean that they can't receive information.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Yes.
ATTENDEE: Is DOJ the proper place for an ACAA complaint. Or is it DOT --
ATTENDEE: They can.
ATTENDEE: I see.
ATTENDEE: For example, they did some of the work that led to the American Airlines $50 million judgment. They didn't know for a while that they could, under the ACAA
But we have at least two specialists who are dedicated to transportation issues.
ATTENDEE: Okay. Thank you.
ANTHONYA JAMES: So in our continuing advocacy -- also, just to let you know, when we were making the PowerPoint. We were discussing how, you know, by the time, you know, the actual presentation happens, there could be some changes.. and there have been.
So yeah.
So sorry if some of this information is outdated.
So in our -- especially by the time we, like, had to submit it.
And it's like, time had passed...
So continuing advocacy and continuing research for passengers to find their personal wheelchairs, service animal programs, emergency evacuation procedures for people with disabilities -- so we're still advocating for all of those fronts. Some potential barriers that we have.
And we will and have been seeing, our withdrawal of regulations and rulemaking, the current federal officials and Congress, and ACAA enforcement.
Okay. And this is specifically like Danica's work, but with autonomous vehicles, or AVs, they are expanding as a rideshare service. There is a strong need for regulations and legislation, but there are major concerns in federal and state jurisdictions and oversights right now when it comes to AVs.
So some continued advocacy that we are participating in and monitoring is additional research on safety and wheelchair restraint systems, and legislation and regulations that protect the safety of people with disabilities, and ensure equal access, also trying to make sure that we're -- not we -- but the creation of barriers when it comes to these regulations and legislations.
Potential barriers: New legislation and agency rulemaking may not consider the needs of people with disabilities. So we have been seeing that not only when it comes to AVs, but other rulemakings that are coming out that are trying to -- and I'll discuss that later in the presentation -- regulate certain devices, but it's clear that they aren't considering people with disabilities in the rulemaking.
Next, we have rails. We've been seeing the expansion of Amtrak services and accessibility compliance. The Think Differently Transportation Act that requires Amtrak to submit an annual report to Congress with an action plan to bring stations into compliance with the ADA and equivalent facilitation approved for bi-level train sets.
The DOT final rule establishing accessibility standards for pedestrians, facilities in the public right of way includes inner city rail where the stop is located in the public right of way. Some current and potential barriers we're seeing is the Access Board has not yet issued a final rule on rail car accessibility. Possible withholdings of the bipartisan infrastructure law funds. And a lack of ADA enforcement by the federal government.
ATTENDEE: The Think Differently Transportation Act is still a bill, right. Or has that passed?
ANTHONYA JAMES: I'm not sure yet. -- I don't think it has. I can check though.
Okay, and next, we'll be discussing wheelchairs and micro-mobility devices. When it comes to the law, there are -- when it comes to the outdoors, I guess I can say, there are two definitions of wheelchairs that are used. There's the ADA wheelchair definition, which is a manually operated or power-driven device designed primarily for use by an individual with a mobility disability for the main purpose of indoor or both indoor and outdoor locomotion. Whereas under the Federal Wilderness Act, the definition of wheelchair is a device designed solely for use for a mobility impaired person for locomotion, that is suitable for use in an indoor pedestrian area
So you can see the main difference is outdoor use. The National Park Service, they lean more towards the Federal Wilderness Act definition. These definitions are conflicting, but especially for the Federal Wilderness Act to ensure accessibility while also protecting wilderness areas and natural park resources.
ATTENDEE: Does that only apply to national parks or also state parks?
ANTHONYA JAMES: I believe -- I think the best lawyer answer is it depends.
(Laughter.)
Especially on what they're trying to protect. It can also vary based on the specific area.
So the ADA also has another definition for an adaptive device called "other power-driven mobility devices" I wouldn't necessarily say it is a definition that's, like, okay, everything else but a wheelchair.. but it kind of can fit a lot of adaptive devices. It is -- the definition is, any mobility device powered by batteries -- whoa, my voice cracking.. batteries, fuels, or other engines that are used by individuals with mobility disabilities for the purpose of locomotion, or any mobility device designed to operate in areas without defined pedestrian routes, but that is not a wheelchair.
And then we talked about powered micro-mobility devices that are becoming very popular, such as Segways, electric scooters, and some characteristics of the powered micro-mobility devices are that they are motorized, low speed, and a small size. Even though, when I say -- Segways don't seem small to me, but that's my opinion.
So the discussion around the evolution of adaptive sports, adaptive devices, first we begin with sports equipment. In the 1950s, the introduction of wheelchairs specifically designed for sports were introduced
And so that began a continued evolution of adaptive sports equipment that developed into specialized equipment and technology in other areas, not just sports.
So we were seeing adaptive bicycles, prosthetic devices, and adaptive training and practice devices. These developments have allowed people with disabilities to break barriers to participation in sports and other physical activities. I don't know why that is there twice
But we have -- we linked an all-terrain wheelchair just to show how we've come from the 1950s, and show the innovation of adaptive devices continues.
This specific link is for the Xterrain new all-terrain wheelchair. The company manufactures wheelchairs that they advertise as being capable of traveling through grass, gravel, rocks, mud, snow, and can float on water. That's what they say.
ATTENDEE: You mentioned before, do you know the Wilderness Act, was the concern that a, like, an all-terrain wheelchair is, like, prohibited by the definition?
ANTHONYA JAMES: Right.
ATTENDEE: And thus would be limited in where one can use it?
ANTHONYA JAMES: Yes. So that has been a concern with these new innovations. They're battling regulation, legislation that are trying to protect the wilderness areas, but we're also caring about accessibility as well. So it has been a -- kind of a battle
ATTENDEE: Is this basically the people who, you know, don't want four-wheelers, are saying they don't want four-wheelers even if it's a four-wheeler for someone who has a disability?
ANTHONYA JAMES: Yes. Actually, dealing with a beach that is having that issue right now, where they're allowing all other kind of, like, cars and trucks and stuff on the beach, but they're saying people who use four-wheelers, adaptive four-wheelers can't.
ATTENDEE: Can we sue the shit out of them?
(Laughter.)
Where is this beach?
ANTHONYA JAMES: Mississippi. Which I didn't really know that Mississippi had beaches, but, huh.
So the importance of new adaptive devices designed for people with disabilities, new adaptive devices are being developed to help people with disabilities live more independently and participate in daily life. Some of the ones we have linked here are the smart cushion, which is a cushion with advanced sensors that identify factors that can lead to pressure sores. We actually had worked with Disney so that they can, after a member complained to us about some of their rides not being accessible because they didn't have cushions. And actually it ended up going pretty well. And a lot of the rides -- or they implemented having cushions on a lot of ride. So that was a win.
Captioning glasses. Glasses that use AI speech software to provide captions during real-time conversations. A hands-free mouse. A frame that tracks users' head movements and eliminates the need for manual hand control. And these are some examples of new adaptive devices that are being developed.
ATTENDEE: How much do these things cost?
ANTHONYA JAMES: A lot.
(Laughter.)
Yeah. It's like a lot.
So next, we'll talk about the effects of new adaptive devices. The development of new technology has resulted in the proposal of regulation for adaptive devices. The National Park Service released -- or published a notice of proposed rulemaking on powered micro-mobility devices. In their NPRM, they wanted to create a framework, and they also wanted -- they proposed a definition for powered micro-mobility devices.
In their definition, it was pretty broad, so it did include adaptive devices for people with disabilities, and they were looking to prohibit the powered micro-mobility devices in the National Park system. So we submitted comments essentially telling them, like, this is -- on the face, it's a good idea, because these micro-mobility devices, especially when they're unregulated, have caused access barriers for people with disabilities. People leaving electric scooters --
ATTENDEE: Oh, god, yeah.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Leaving them in paths and things like that. So we're like, this is good, because they cause accessibility barriers
But we don't want it to be so broad that we are -- that the National Park Service is actually creating accessibility barriers by not allowing people who use adaptive devices that fall under their definition for powered micro-mobility device to not be able to access the National Parks.
So yeah, advocacy still being done.
We are looking at continued research and invention of devices that increase accessibility for people with disabilities, which is another reason why we don't -- we're cautious about seeing rulemaking like this, because, you know, there are things that -- or adaptive devices that are being developed that, you know, maybe 40, 50 years ago, people couldn't imagine. So we especially don't want to, like, cut off innovation by prohibiting such devices.
So like I said, in advocacy, we are commenting on proposed rules that are restricting adaptive devices. Some potential barriers to new adaptive devices are these restrictive regulations and rulemaking. The DOJ Civil Rights Section freeze. And current federal officials and Congress.
All right. Take another sip of water.
So we're also monitoring the effects and impacts of executive orders and memos that have come out, and what that means to advocacy, especially when it comes to transportation. The regulatory freeze, pending review, that directs all executive departments and agencies to refrain from proposing or issuing any rule until a department or agency head appointed by the president reviews and approves of the rule.
This executive order can cause further delay to the pace of -- can and will -- cause further delay to the pace of agency regulations.
The unleashing of prosperity through deregulation essentially states that for regulations that are publicly proposed for the notice and comment period by an individual executive department or agency, that agency has to identify 10 existing regulations to be repealed. So that can limit the number of new regulations issued by federal agencies, if for every one they have to repeal 10.
Also, the return to in-person work. So on its face, when this first came out, not a lot of people were thinking about the effects of this on people with disabilities who work in the departments and agencies in the executive branch. So those departments and agencies have to take steps to terminate remote work arrangements. And this can affect people with disabilities who experience barriers when commuting and accessing transportation. So -- but there was nothing in the executive order about providing assistance to those individuals who could face those barriers when it comes to commuting.
ATTENDEE: Told to leave your house earlier...
ANTHONYA JAMES: Yeah...
So right now, we are looking at shifts in our advocacy strategy. Flexible advocacy strategies are important so that organizations are able to make shifts as changes are made and needs arise. It's going to take a lot of -- or some creativity when it comes to what advocating looks like. For our regulatory advocacy, we are still encouraging our members to submit public comments and attend and participate in public meetings
And also file complaints with the federal and local agencies for violations. And most importantly -- well, not most importantly -- but also voicing their story, getting their stories heard so, you know, we're seeing -- putting a face to the effects of these executive orders and memos, and how that is affecting people with disabilities.
So that brings me to the end of my presentation. Pretty much right on time -- well, a little early. So this is -- if anyone has any questions or interested in starting a discussion around the topic, then, yeah, this is the time for that.
ATTENDEE: So that Think Differently Act, about Amtrak required to submit the ADA -- so it was passed in the 2023 to 2024 So that is a law now.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Okay.
ATTENDEE: I took Amtrak this morning. I can tell you it was very different, in a good way.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Oh, okay. That's good.
ATTENDEE: Still don't like being referred to as "the wheelchair", but -- "Oh, we've got the wheelchair. We have a wheelchair".
Progress...
ZAINAB: This is Zainab speaking through an interpreter. So obviously times are very different today. You've spoken a little bit about all the different barriers that people with disabilities are facing. In a perfect world, it would be so nice to resolve everything you've mentioned. Looking at the next four years, we see a lot of challenges ahead. How is your organization, or are you, prioritizing each certain issues in light of current events?
ANTHONYA JAMES: You said each of the certain issues, or -- like, just how we're prioritizing -- or how we're approaching --
ZAINAB: More of a global question to all of the issues.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Okay, yeah. So like I said, we have been trying to be creative and flexible in our advocacy. And what that looks like on a day-to-day basis -- I feel like every day at 5:00, we get some kind of new notice that something else has happened. So we're looking at what we've done in the past when it comes to advocacy or -- and a lot of it has been working with other organizations and essentially, like, coming together to make sure, you know, we're on the same page.
And we are all having a similar approach to things to make sure, you know, we're stronger in numbers is the approach that we have been taking. It has definitely been a day-to-day shift.
So it feels like every day, we're like, okay, now we can't do this. What do we do now. And how that works. Instead of being so focused and shutting down -- because by being -- okay.
We're so overwhelmed with all the information that's happening, that can cause a lot of people to, like, just freeze
And so we are just trying to roll with the punches, take them as they come in, and definitely meeting more to discuss, okay. Like, what can we do now. How can we approach this. And sometimes how we've acted, or how we have moved in the past isn't necessarily going to work. So we're trying to really figure it out.
I'm sorry, that's not a good answer.
ZAINAB: This is Zainab again through the interpreter. I know at my organization, we're struggling exactly in the same way. The same things we're struggling with. Day by day, we've got to roll with the punches
And I get that. You know, we're pivoting constantly, adapting
And I was just wondering how you all are making determinations. This issue, can we accomplish this issue in this current status, or is this something we're putting on the back burner. And just keep it on our list and just keep the status quo for the next four years and do no harm, kind of thing?
And then, you know, reevaluate as the situation changes. Is that an approach you're taking. Or...?
You know, there has to be a balance -- it's sticky -- between continuing to advocate and not being a target. Having your advocacy make you become a target and causing future issues.
ANTHONYA JAMES: So I would say there are areas where we're like, okay, this probably is not going to move for the next four years. We are putting it on the back burner, but also monitoring it.
But in terms of, like, not being seen as a target, that hasn't really -- there have been -- our president has made public statements about certain.. statements that have been made, and we are taking the approach of, especially if it's something that is harming people with disabilities and specifically, like, our members, paralyzed veterans, then we are going to say something. We're going to -- we're going to be heard.
So that has been, in the past, like, couple months, you know, what has happened
But there are definitely things that we're like, okay, right now, this is not going to move. We hope
But it's probably not. So we kind of pivot in ways that we see moving, especially a little bit. So we see that more, at most times, with veterans issues and the VA and stuff like that. So really focusing there at different moments. Thank you.
ATTENDEE: Are there any specific areas of concern that we as advocates should be speaking about. Like, this program is going to be cut, or this particular thing is going to happen. Or...?
ANTHONYA JAMES: I would say right now, --
ATTENDEE: That would be your top three concerns that you want people to start speaking out about?
ANTHONYA JAMES: Top three concerns...
ATTENDEE: You know, telling their friends and family to send their senator letters and, you know, call their reps and stuff?
ANTHONYA JAMES: So definitely, we see when it comes to employment and the whole DEIA rhetoric that's being spread -- which is one of the things that our president has made a public statement about --
ATTENDEE: So how does that relate to transportation specifically. Just the gutting of the Transportation Department. I mean, that's been a concern from the beginning across the entire government. Is there anything specific to transportation --?
ATTENDEE: Well, may I?
And I'm afraid I haven't read, you know, I'm honestly focused mostly on service animal issues
But I know that there were some directives in the FAA Reauthorization Act that by dates certain, the DOT was supposed to, you know, issue new regulations on -- there were two of them -- does anyone know what they were?
ZAINAB: This is Zainab speaking, yes.
ATTENDEE: Thank you.
ZAINAB: IFE and the entertainment one, right. They were supposed to have --
ATTENDEE: That's right, I think that's right.
ZAINAB: And now that's a big question. May is only a couple months away. I don't think they're going to meet that deadline.
ATTENDEE: Well, and then if they don't --
ZAINAB: There was another one. I don't remember what it was. Apologies, though. Go ahead, sorry.
ATTENDEE: I think it had to do with wheelchair access, but I don't remember because I wasn't on that subcommittee
But I think that the IFE one, the entertainment stuff, I think that if May comes and goes and it's not published, then someone could, you know, petition for the publication of those rules, the issuing of those rules.
And if they're not issued within a certain amount of time, then, you know, go to court and get a court to find that it was not in conformance with law and they've got to issue them. You know. I mean, I don't think we should be sitting on the sidelines just saying, like, oh, well, you know, when the DOT gets around to reconstitute -- you know, getting the committee back up and running, we will do our work. I think we sort of look to see what legal hooks there are in the law that require the DOT to do stuff, and when it fails to do it, we make them do it.
ANTHONYA JAMES: And I will say another focal point of ours is the surface transportation reauthorization. That's coming up. Looking at where to add things, especially on --
ATTENDEE: To clarify for the interpreters, surface, like surface transportation, or service animals?
ANTHONYA JAMES: Surface, sorry, yes, surface transportation reauthorization.
ATTENDEE: Does that include -- is that basically including trains as well as, you know, cars and other transport?
ANTHONYA JAMES: I'm not specifically --
ATTENDEE: I don't know if it includes rails or not --
ATTENDEE: It's mostly -- it's not roads, if I'm not mistaken. It's trains and subways and such. And buses, I think.
ANTHONYA JAMES: We're also looking at sidewalks as well.
ATTENDEE: Oh
Okay.
ATTENDEE: These acts you've mentioned for the airlines, do they cover the actual, like, communications within the airports?
ZAINAB: No. It covers -- the airline companies, what happens in the air, at the gate as well
However, the rest of the airport is Department of Justice.
ATTENDEE: Thank you.
ATTENDEE: And the regulations that -- I'm sorry, Zainab. I don't want to mispronounce it --
ATTENDEE: Yes. I'm Zainab speaking through an interpreter --
ATTENDEE: That Zainab referred to earlier was IFE, or in-flight entertainment, which is stuff on the plane, the little back of the seat stuff.
ATTENDEE: The airport itself is ADA, as opposed to ACAA.
ATTENDEE: Title II.. yes.
ATTENDEE: Thank you.
ZAINAB: I agree, right.
ATTENDEE: Thank you.
ATTENDEE: May I ask a question of the Justice folks. Are you still here?
ATTENDEE: You can try.
(Laughter.)
ATTENDEE: I just want to know, for the -- when you were saying that you guys have some enforcement authority over the ACAA, is that through an administrative process. Or is that through the sort of, like, file a complaint and DOJ can pursue it on your behalf, sort of like we've been doing with the service animals and rideshare complaints?
ATTENDEE: It may be a mixture of both, where, if it was something that aligned with the priorities of the administration and they wanted to, on behalf of the United States, take that position. I couldn't comment if that's --
ATTENDEE: Let us assume that it is NOT that.
ATTENDEE: If it's not that, there may be some way that we -- there are times that the Disability Rights Section offers guidance to other departments or other agencies, specifically about the disability content.
ATTENDEE: I see
But there's not an administrative process the way there is for, like, a formal complaint in the DOT where, you know. There's an eventual decision made that you can then, you know, appeal through an APA action.
ATTENDEE: I am not sure. Sorry.
I was wondering if anyone was aware of any efforts -- ha -- probably not now, but in terms of air travel to making the restrooms accessible on the planes.
ATTENDEE: I think some of the long-haul planes now have accessible restrooms? I was flying JetBlue between New York and London.
ATTENDEE: Yeah, if there's two aisles, they have different requirements on those planes.
But I thought in the 2004, in the final rule, that there was something for single things.
And it's like 10 years in the future, and it's...
ATTENDEE: I can look it up.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Yeah, there is. I'm blanking on it at the moment.
ATTENDEE: This was a single-aisle aircraft. It was just that, you know, there was a, at the front of the cabin, there was a restroom that, I mean, it was like, you know, big enough to hold a party in.
(Laughter.)
And I asked about it.
And they said, oh, it's because, it's, you know, accessible
But I don't know.
ATTENDEE: That's -- yeah, some of the Airbuses have that
But it's not a requirement.
ATTENDEE: I see.
ZAINAB: This is Zainab. I've got two follow-up questions on that. The first one being, I remember from, I think, 2016, the regs. There was an agreement on the accessibility of the bathrooms, but it was like 10, 15 years in the future, because they had to design the plane to actually accommodate that bathroom. I think that was 2016
But then it didn't start from there. It actually started from when there was the first order, the DOT order, and does anybody know when that was?
ATTENDEE: Airlines ordered beginning in 2033 that are delivered beginning in 2035.
ZAINAB: Okay, 33, perfect, that was the time. Yeah, that matches what I remember for sure.
And then the other question is, does anybody know, or does anyone have the most recent update related to the new design of the plane, where you can actually bring your wheelchair up onto the plane?
ATTENDEE: Um, it's just being explored.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Yeah.
ZAINAB: Okay, just explored, that's all.
ATTENDEE: That may be something we're supposed to deal with on the committee. I don't know
Again, I wasn't on that subcommittee.
ATTENDEE: Right now, you kind of have to, like, not eat or drink for a while...
ATTENDEE: For 10 years.
(Laughter.)
ATTENDEE: Yeah. It's terrible.
ATTENDEE: Fly Airbuses, apparently.
ATTENDEE: If you happen to get lucky.
I've talked to Ken about this in the past. I would keep a lookout for certain aisle chairs. There are aisle chairs that go up and down, and they're awesome. And --
ATTENDEE: So much easier.
ATTENDEE: Yeah.
ATTENDEE: Essentially they're like powered?
ATTENDEE: No. There's a, um --
ATTENDEE: Like hydraulic thing?
ATTENDEE: Hydraulic, thank you, in it
And the biggest benefit, besides making transfer easier, is that it lifts up, and, A, it's easier for the attendants, for the people pulling it
But it also gets my hips up above the --
ATTENDEE: Ah, the arms.
ATTENDEE: The armrest. And, yeah. That's something I would love to see more required. You know, I've put comments in
But, you know, that should be part of the study in order to, you know, a better aisle chair would make it easier on the people working for the airline. And, you know, make it easier overall, both sides.
ATTENDEE: Have you mentioned that to Heather?
ATTENDEE: Um, I've brought it up with Ken. Because he was working on the -- Kenshi Otani.
ATTENDEE: Heather is one of the chairs of the ACAA advisory committee
And so if that's something that we want to get into the regs, I think Heather would be the best person to talk to about that.
ATTENDEE: Very good, okay.
ATTENDEE: I can certainly bring it up with -- I've been working very closely with the guy from airlines.org.
ATTENDEE: I know Ken was on the committee itself, but he wasn't the chair. Or like the subcommittee --
ATTENDEE: I don't think he's on it now.
ATTENDEE: I don't think so. Because of secondary effects from his COVID.
ATTENDEE: Yeah
But Heather's chair. So talk to her. I'll mention it to the airline guy. Because I'm working with him on a service animal thing.
ANTHONYA JAMES: I can mention it to Heather as well.
ATTENDEE: Yeah. It sounds like the sort of thing that, you know, if it's beneficial to everybody --
ATTENDEE: This was like, you know, 10 years ago on, like, Southwest, you know. It was just one random thing. So they exist. You know, they chose to come up with it, you know, on their own. So...
My contact information here. You can email me at [email protected], or Danica, when she comes back, [email protected]. Yeah. I appreciate -- not saying to cut off the questions.
(Laughter.)
But I definitely appreciate everyone's patience and understanding.
ATTENDEE: You did great.
(Applause.)
ANTHONYA JAMES: Sorry about Danica not being here. ZAINAB: This is Zainab. Please tell Danica that we're all hoping that everything is okay.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Definitely will.
ATTENDEE: All right, thank you.
ANTHONYA JAMES: Thank you.
ATTENDEE: I don't suppose DOJ folks, you can say anything about whether there's any plans to do anything with all of those complaints about service animals on rideshare. Or whether we're basically just like spitting into the wind?
>>Off the record?
ATTENDEE: Yes, off the record.
ATTENDEE: You're probably better off going to individual protection and advocacy agencies at the state level.
ATTENDEE: Oh.. Hm...
ATTENDEE: I've personally done that in Arizona previously.
ATTENDEE: With rideshare companies?
ATTENDEE: Yes we got a decent --
ATTENDEE: And they were able to sue?
ATTENDEE: We got a decent settlement with Uber.
ATTENDEE: Interesting
Okay. Good to know. Do you happen to know, by any chance, how they got around the associational, like, limit and the claim that everyone who's got associational claims would be bound by arbitration?
ATTENDEE: I wasn't part of that piece. I know what you're talking about though. I think they just wanted the claim to go away, honestly
But --
ATTENDEE: Okay.
ATTENDEE: It helped there was video. Sometimes when there's been video and actual evidence instead of --
ATTENDEE: You know. The general counsel for Uber is, like, a relative of Kamala. So maybe...
(Laughter.)
That's a reason why the DOJ would want to go after Uber.
ATTENDEE: Hmmm --
ATTENDEE: I'm just saying.
ATTENDEE: Whatever we got to use. I completely hear you. I completely hear you.
ATTENDEE: I don't like a kleptocracy government, but if I have to live in one, I might as well use it.
ATTENDEE: I'm curious about the individual U.S. attorneys and districts. I know in the past, some have been better than others.
ATTENDEE: Yeah
And they're all being rerouted to border.. offices.
ATTENDEE: I mean, you know -- I know it's different today --
ATTENDEE: There's no longer any independence from what the god-king wants.
ATTENDEE: It's different today, but during the Bush administration, the sovereign districts did great things.
(End of session)