Announcer:
Welcome to the Nation's Blind Podcast presented by the National Federation of the Blind, the transformative membership and advocacy organization of blind Americans. Live the life you want.
Melissa Riccobono:
Hello and welcome to the Nation's Blind Podcast. I'm Melissa Riccobono, and I am here with the man who is never duplicated, but often imitated...
Anil Lewis:
Well, never intimidated. This is the Anil Lewis. There's a lot going on around here. Oh my goodness.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yes. There is a lot going on in the world, and there has been a lot of very crazy weather. I know you said you live in Atlanta because they just shut the city down when it gets icy or snowy.
Anil Lewis:
Yeah, we do not handle snow. It's so funny. My northern friends say, "Oh, you guys in Atlanta, you don't have to deal with snow. We have seven, eight inches." I'm like, we know how to deal with snow, even if it's just a half an inch, we shut the city down and that's the way you deal with snow.
Melissa Riccobono:
But that's not how we sometimes handle snow and weather. And sometimes there's things that have to get done and that have to get done, not just because they've been planned for a long time, but I mean, there's lots of very good reasons why certain things happen when they do, and we'll get into that. But we just had the National Federation of the Blind Washington Seminar at the end of January, and we had a lot of ice, a lot of snow. There were plans that were made that had to be scrapped. There were things that had to be done differently than we usually do them, but the show went on. And so that's what we're going to talk about today is Washington Seminar and sort of that show going on and the experiences that people had at the Washington Seminar this year, which was a little bit different than some years.
Anil Lewis:
(Laughs) A lot different (Melissa laughs). And I'm glad we have the individuals here to join us that can help us discuss this topic. So want to start with our introductions?
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, go ahead.
Anil Lewis:
Well, I got to start with this introduction. This is a very good friend of mine. We've known each other for many, many years, and he had the, I'll say, intimidating decision to make around our Washington Seminar efforts. And I have to admit, at the top of this hour, I'm very pleased with the way that he worked out the Federation's strategy for addressing the snowstorm because we have to allow individuals to make choices, but if we don't facilitate the ability for them to make choices, then people feel like they're forced to do one thing or the other. And I have to admit that because of the way that we dealt with this, and I always marvel at the Federation and the way we do these things, and it's because we have such significant leadership, but because we handled it the way that we did, I think it created some pretty interesting opportunities that I'm going to definitely mention one that I had later in the show. But with no further ado, my friend, the President of the National Federation of the Blind, Mr. Mark Riccobono, thanks for joining us, sir.
President Riccobono:
Thank you very much. I appreciate it. And it's pretty cold here in Baltimore, so I'm thinking of coming to Atlanta next.
Anil Lewis:
Come on down (laughs)!
President Riccobono:
I am coming to Atlanta next week (laughs).
Anil Lewis:
Nice.
Melissa Riccobono:
So next we have somebody who knows all about snow and ice. From the great state of Alaska, we have Kelsy Tallant. How are you, Kelsy?
Kelsy Tallant:
Hi. I am doing good. Thank you for having me.
Melissa Riccobono:
Great. And you were at Washington Seminar this year?
Kelsy Tallant:
Virtually, yes (Kelsy and Melissa laugh).
Melissa Riccobono:
We're glad you were virtual. I was also virtual, by the way (Kelsy laughs). Glad you were virtual, but we could have used your help. You probably have shoveling skills and other skills that maybe we could have used. So (Melissa and Anil laugh)...
President Riccobono:
They don't shovel in Alaska. They just walk over it.
Anil Lewis:
Exactly (Kelsy laughs).
Melissa Riccobono:
Well, okay. That's true. You maybe had snow shoes we could have all used.
Kelsy Tallant:
We were so excited and prepared, we sent the snow there early.
Melissa Riccobono:
Oh!
Anil Lewis:
So you did that.
Melissa Riccobono:
That's why we got the snow. Well...
Anil Lewis:
Yeah, I want to talk you out to this episode (Melissa laughs). I'll be contacting you after this episode. And we have one more guest. And this young lady here has always impressed me. She's also, I'll just disclose one of President Riccobono's favorite because of one of the songs that she's put out there that he plays on a regular basis. But I remember going to a Utah state convention and hearing her sing live. Wonderful voice. Barbie Elliott, glad you could join us.
Barbie Elliott:
Hello. Thank you so much. And yes, we are used to snow in Utah too, and I was there in person and it was a fun time, my sixth Washington Seminar, and it was definitely not the same as normal (Anil, Melissa and Barbie laugh). Definitely a new experience. But yeah, we are used to snow out here and we have none. So the only snow I have experienced this winter was at Washington Seminar, which is strange for the Rocky Mountains (laughs).
Anil Lewis:
Well, like I said we have a packed load of individuals joining us today. But before we get deeper into this conversation about our Washington Seminar and the way we weathered the storm, let's pause for a brief message.
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Anil Lewis:
Alright, so let's get into this conversation.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, let's do it. I mean, I think we should just start at the beginning. Talk to President Riccobono about what we did to pivot and sort of what was the thought process behind, I'm kind of guessing, canceling the whole thing didn't really enter your head simply because there's a lot of work to be done, and the timing of the Washington Seminar is important.
So maybe you can talk a little bit about that, and then just about your thought process and how it started and what you did in the beginning to make sure that people who were able to get to the seminar were able to be safe and get to the hotel and whatever else happened to make sure that everybody was able to get the work done that needed to be done.
President Riccobono:
Well, I mean, canceling was definitely on the table. We always try to look at all of the options and make an informed decision to the best that we can. So the Washington Seminar has been an annual event for us since 1973, and it doesn't have to continue to be, but what we have found is that there is real value in bringing concentration of blind people to the nation's capital to focus on some key issues, especially to keep the concerns of blind people in front of the members of Congress and to really build those relationships.
So we do have to plan that months in advance. We do have a formula we use in terms of watching the congressional schedule. We know what history tells us about what Congress does. This year, a number of things turned out to work against us. The first was that Congress deviated from its usual patterns.
Anil Lewis:
No!
President Riccobono:
Can you believe that (Anil laughs)? Specifically the House and the Senate, especially the House, has been playing this game of chicken with the Senate. So speaker said, "Well, we're not going to be in town. We're passing our bill and we're leaving." This is what happened in October as well.
Well, the leaving happened to be during the week of Washington Seminar, but we felt that that was okay, and we were watching the weather reports, and you continue to watch, and at least for Baltimore, I can say ten days out, seven days out, they were much worse than they ended up being. So it's a tricky thing to balance. And then we have to balance, just to give you a few more factors, one is it's not like we have a group of paid lobbyists. Our members, well, they're all volunteers. Many of them have full-time jobs, other things that they're doing, this is a dedicated time that they've taken off to come to Washington DC.
It's not like they can just say, "Oh, yeah, all right, let's move to the next week (chuckles)," because we have been successful at getting more blind people into employment. So that's another factor. And then you got, as a membership organization, I have to balance a lot of people very passionate about being in DC because there were people who made extraordinary efforts to try to get to DC, still couldn't make it because they feel very passionate about the work that we're trying to do. So these are just some of the factors.
Obviously, we never want our members to feel like they're required to put themselves in a situation that's difficult. Many people did make extraordinary steps to change their flight to get to the DC area early, so they were in place. Some people who wanted to do that simply couldn't because of the path of the storm and where they were.
So we got together, we weighed all these factors. Of course, there are financial factors too. If we just outright cancel the hotel contract, we're still on the hook for the money. So there's always, it's not just one or two factors. It's many factors. And I think we ended up...
Anil Lewis:
There was the individuals who've invested money that they're not going to be able...
President Riccobono:
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So the great thing is we are a team. We're an organization of leaders. So we got a number of folks together who had different perspectives and analyze the situation. And I think we came out with a pretty good plan, and then we made all the Plan Bs we could. And to some extent, you let the weather roll in (laughs) and roll with it from there.
Anil Lewis:
And it rolled in (Anil and President Riccobono laugh).
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, it definitely did. You had affiliate presidents too, that some of them were staying at the NFB before the seminar for a retreat. And so making sure that everybody got down, I mean, I think that was very, very smart, even though I was a little sad, I had to say, see you to you a day early, but you were able to go down to the hotel with people and pivot that way to make sure that you guys were out of Baltimore before anything happened. And so I'm sure that helped everybody feel a little bit safer, and I certainly felt safer just knowing that you guys were out and whatever happened, you were all together in a hotel (laughs) and everything was going to be fine because, you know...
President Riccobono:
Yeah, and I would say that the thing that really works out in this case is that, and this happened to us similarly in 2016, although...
Anil Lewis:
Oh no (laughs)!
President Riccobono:
I think this was a little more dramatic this time, but the beauty of it is we had more blind people on Capitol Hill than members of Congress were present. And that did really make an impact, especially for our senator from Alaska who his constituents weren't able to make it, but he had already agreed to host our congressional reception, which we still had, and I really got the sense that we were kind of getting messages, "Yeah, he's coming. No, he's not coming. Yeah, he's coming.
No, he is not coming." But I think when he walked in the room and figured out, "Man, there's more blind people here than my colleagues in Congress," that really made a huge impression. In addition, this is the one two punch, in addition to the fact that (Anil laughs) at a very powerful virtual meeting with the Alaska delegation earlier that day.
Anil Lewis:
Very nice. And I love the way you slipped in the John Pare phrase of the one two punch. That's very nice. John Pare and his team did a great job of facilitating. So Kelsy, tell us about the whole Alaska experience around Washington Seminar.
Kelsy Tallant:
Oh wow. Okay. Gosh. It was a roller coaster, and I'm so glad to hear that our senator was able to make it to the reception and see the amount of Federation family that was there. Because at my very first Washington Seminar, a comment he made to me was, "I've noticed a lot of you blind individuals on the Hill. Is it your national convention or something?" So it's been great to build that relationship with him.
And so the storm, oh boy, we had some members that were supposed to show up on Saturday and kind of get a day to adjust for a seminar on Monday and hit the Hill hard. But as soon as the storm started, because in Alaska we have to take two to three flights often to get to DC. Our flights started getting canceled and adjusted pretty quickly on Friday. And so we got pretty early heads up that we're going to have to do some adjusting, and eventually everyone's flights got canceled (laughs).
Anil Lewis:
Wow.
Kelsy Tallant:
So that was fun, but we were able to pivot to virtual, and luckily the staff members were very accommodating. And I got a lot of good feedback from people who were actually able to make it there in person saying that we made the smart decision to stay home because even after fights were canceled, there were some of us who were still trying to maybe get there Monday night because our meetings were Tuesday.
So because these meetings, they're really important to us and they make a difference, and doing them virtually worked out great, but had I not had the in-person meetings in my previous seminars, it would've been very hard, I think (laughs). So I'm very grateful that it was my third Washington Seminar, not my first, but there were members who were with me that it was supposed to be their first Washington Seminar.
And so I was sad not to be able to share the experience with them. Even prior to getting ready for this podcast, I was looking back at some of my reflections and just being there in person with everyone, it's just an amazing experience, but I can't wait to share it with them next year and hit the Hill hard again. Truly was different this year (laughs).
Anil Lewis:
You're right though. It is something powerful about being in that space with all of these individuals that are there for that unified effort of really educating our policymakers. And there is really no substitute being in the room with that legislative either congressman, congresswoman, senator. It not only makes you feel more powerful, it also I think brings more power to our issues in the minds and hearts of the legislators. Barbie, how was your Utah experience?
Barbie Elliott:
So we were doing a one, a nonstop flight. And so most of us made it. There were some who couldn't because they had some double flights where they had to get to Salt Lake and their flights got moved and changed and canceled. So we had both kinds of people. We did have some longtime attendees, and we had a young high school student and his mom that were first time attendees, and we got to share that experience with them and tell them how much fun it can be, even though the first couple three days were, well, we're stuck in the hotel again (Anli laughs).
But it was interesting to watch how it went down as far as the difference between the virtual meetings and the in-person meetings. Because on Tuesday, all of our meetings were virtual. The house people weren't there. Our house representatives were the ones we had scheduled. We were meeting with staff and they just said, we're not coming into the office. We're going to meet you on Zoom. And we did. And they listened and it was nice and it was well done. And because we had done pandemic, we got to do that.
I was supposed to come in 2016 when you guys had Snowmaggedon, and my flights made it impossible to get there. And I didn't get to do any virtual because we weren't doing that back then. And it was nice to be able to join into those Zoom meetings on Zoom in pandemic times, and in other times when we did hybrid with our representatives here in Utah, and I could stay at work and still go to Washington Seminar for a little bit. And it was also nice to be able to do it in person.
And yes, there's a huge, huge difference. And we were able to, because we do have snow in Utah, talk about, you know what when you have barriers, it doesn't mean you can't. We in Utah know how to plow that snow, and we know how to shovel it and make it so people go to work and they have a regular, but if you are not ready and you don't have the preparation and you don't have the personnel and the training and all of the tools in place, you can't do it. And that's what we as blind people want.
We want the tools, we want the preparation, we want the training. And these programs that we're talking to you about today are here to show you this is what works. We know because we've experienced it both ways and we've been stuck and the barriers aren't going away just like the snow isn't going away.
President Riccobono:
Yeah, it's really significant. One element that's really significant, what Barbie said was in 2016, Congress wasn't taking virtual meetings. It wasn't even our infrastructure. It is not something that Congress even did. So the fact that we have been leading the way, even with our virtual Washington Seminar and really continuing to change with the times and adapt, and that our team has been able to guide our members on those adaptations, really critical.
Anil Lewis:
Agreed.
Melissa Riccobono:
Well, and I mean, we did have the virtual training. You could go on Zoom and hear the training. I don't think we've ever offered it on Zoom before, but we recognized that, hey, there's going to be people that are going to be taking virtual meetings from back home, who if they were here in person, would be getting this training and they need the information so that they can speak of our policies and our legislative issues, and so we need to give them the tools. So I thought that was really good as well.
Anil Lewis:
So we had kind of three legislative issues as we traditionally do. Love to know which of those resonates most with each of you.
Barbie Elliott:
I went with the third one. I'm going to call it the third one, but it's the education because it's the one that affects me probably the most, was the one I was most passionate about. But man, after I heard other people talking about the technology, I love that one too because man, I wish it was around when I was trying to buy my own technology (Anil laughs), didn't have a job and was a stay-at-home mom. And I thought, "Man, we got this, we got this." And I was excited that we were talking about the things that are important. But yeah, definitely the education and protecting those things that we need affects me directly. I'm the second person in my state to get to go to public school because of IDEA.
Anil Lewis:
Oh wow.
Barbie Elliott:
It wasn't done before me. And the person before me had a TBI or we didn't call them that. We called them itinerant teachers back then, who was her grandmother. And so I kind of am the first. And that was important to me because I felt like it helped me become the person I am today. And now I work for our Department of Services for the Blind here in Utah and rehabilitation, that's going to be my thing too, because I see what it does to the lives of the people that I work with every day. And I was able to give that example to our staffers and our representatives and our congress to tell them, this is what I have seen in my own personal experience. And so that was where my passion was. But man, that technology took my heart too.
Anil Lewis:
Yeah, just those personal stories, it's those personal stories that make all the difference. So it's nice that you able to share your lived experience with them.
Melissa Riccobono:
Definitley. Kelsy, how about you?
Kelsy Tallant:
My favorite initiative we had this year was Blind Americans Return to Work Act. I have unique story with this one. It's my third Washington Seminar. So it's been initiative of ours every time that I've attended. And the first year I really struggled with this one. It really has some technical terms and I couldn't really see what the purpose of it was, but now I have some more background and some more stories along with it.
And I had a good friend who was able to share his story with me. And I truly believe that this initiative can change my future in a good way and all of our futures. So this is I think one I'm most passionate about. Also, in our meeting with Senator Sullivan this year, he was very passionate about it, and I think saw our passion behind it and was able to hear the stories and was very interested in it. And just getting him to hear our stories was very powerful.
Anil Lewis:
President Riccobono, are you allowed to pick a favorite? Can you have a favorite (Melissa, Kelsy and Anil laugh)?
President Riccobono:
Well, yeah, I would say I was going to go with whatever was left (Anil laughs). But to the point of protecting the laws that impact the education and employment of blind people, I would offer that it's a very unique opportunity for the National Federation of the Blind. We're usually the change agent. We're usually pushing for innovation to improve the laws, to enhance them, to make them work even better for blind people.
We have made a strategic decision that now is not the right time to necessarily work on innovation based on the signals that we're getting from the administration and from the Congress. So I think this is particularly important because it's not number one what most people would expect from the Federation, but it is truly authentic to who we are.
If we were not showing up in Congress and talking about these bills, these particular laws that intersect with blind people, if something happened to them, if changes were made in these programs, the average American would never even know, unless they're a blind person or have a family member who's blind, they really would never notice if these programs went away.
So in one sense, it's like, "Ah, kind of boring to talk about protecting stuff that's already there," but really critical because if we're not talking about it, nobody's talking about it. And I think that is really what has helped keep programs for the blind really relevant in the minds of members of Congress. And even this week, Congress is talking about voting and because we have a presence, we've been talking about our issues. Our team has been hunting around Congress to see if we can find a way to strengthen voting accessibility. While that's talked about, that's because we already have that credibility with the members of Congress.
Anil Lewis:
And that speaks to, again, the fortitude of the individuals who were able to make it. Because my personal experience going, we had some individuals from Georgia that came about half of our delegation was able to make it. Others weren't due to cancellations of flights and the bad weather, etc, but we had a really mixed experience. So some of the staffers in the house side actually went into the office and we met them in the office.
And I think that they were just surprised when we were confirming meetings that morning, they were surprised that we were going to be there. But because of that, I think those meetings had much more substance. And the ones that we did have to flip to virtual, what I noticed is the offices where we had good relationships, the virtual meetings went really well. The offices where we didn't have really good relationships, it's something lost and getting them to really feel what we're talking about when it's done virtually, because then we're just talking heads.
I think that there's something to be said about being in the room, seeing the canes, watching us walk independently and navigate through those environments. That really is kind of an epiphany for them. But I have to tell this story. When we had our meeting with Senator Ossoff, he usually has a little town hall thing. He invites many organizations to come and you get maybe thirty seconds, sixty seconds worth of face time, talk time with the senator, snap the photo, and then the next group comes.
But the NFB and the small group from Head Start were the only ones in the room. So he had this whole dedicated forty-five minutes to an hour. So we ended up with twenty, twenty-five minutes of just face time talking about NFB issues with the senator, and it allowed us to go a little deeper. And he was really engaging his staff. He was asking real questions. He charged them with responsibilities of writing memos so he can evaluate the support. He ended up giving us his cell phone number. I mean, that wouldn't have happened if we wouldn't have been there. It wouldn't have happened. So that was a really cool consequence of weathering the storm as well.
Melissa Riccobono:
Well, and I bet. Did the people in Head Start, were they in that conversation at all, or were they separate?
Anil Lewis:
They had their time too.
Melissa Riccobono:
Oh, okay. I was thinking all of you were together. And that would've been really cool because when you're talking about education, they might've said, "Oh, we have blind kids in a Head Start" or, anyway.
Anil Lewis:
No, we were in the same room, but we were taking turns and engaging with the senator.
Melissa Riccobono:
Got it.
Anil Lewis:
And I made sure they had my contact information, but the key was we were better prepared. It was really interesting to watch that too, because our group, we went through the trainings. We had done several meetings, so we had a rhythm in place and that kind of thing. The Head Start individually, I think they were surprised at that opportunity. So they really didn't have a strategy. They were just going to get that face time. And what was really interesting, which endeared the senator to me is he really ended up helping them engage with him, he said, "Well, I should probably do this to help you guys, and you should (laughs)..."
That was awesome. Yeah, so it was a really interesting experience that I would cherish, but it was really, if we weren't in that room, that would not have happened. So that's one of the ways that we get active in the things that are happening in this world. We are a subset of society and all of the issues that face any other American, challenges us as blind people. President Riccobono, you were recently on the Access On podcast, and I believe you had some comments about the current state of the ICE situation. I think we have a recording of it. Let's take a listen.
Jonathan Mosen:
I imagine this must be something that you have to wrestle with and that you give considerable thought to, but in the kind of politically charged environment that we have, and you see what's happening. As we record this, in Minnesota, for example, and all of the publicity that has surrounding it, blind people are migrants too. And so these things are affecting blind people. How do you determine as president, when we react to something that is in the public arena like that, that is just all consuming in the news and when we should sit it out and how do you make that call?
President Riccobono:
Yeah, well in this case, immigration issues, obviously not new, have been a very hot topic over the last couple decades. Our role in the world, and we only have limited resources, is to make sure that whatever priorities are taking place aren't further disadvantaging blind people. And so we want to do two things in this regard. One is continue to acknowledge and support people who are blind, who also have these intersecting characteristics where they may be affected by the broader things that were happening.
So making sure that our chapter meetings continue to be a welcoming and safe place for all blind people. We don't want to start creating an environment where we're asking people for their citizenship papers when they show up to a chapter meeting. We're here to support blind people. We're not here to be the police for people's immigration status. So we would want to continue to message to our members that that's the case and not get involved in that.
We do have the interesting situation with Minneapolis right now. What should our chapter do if ICE shows up? And we've tried to give some guidance on that. At the end of the day, very difficult because we can't predict everything that might happen. The second aspect I would offer is that we know that in a lot of situations, blind people are still at a disadvantage because of accessibility. And that is an important place for us to apply our expertise and focus.
So we know that the immigration process itself continues to have accessibility barriers, and so we try to focus there because we can make a unique difference there. We also remain concerned about what is happening at detention facilities where blind people might end up. This also intersects, I think, with some of the work that we've done in prisons where know that disability is just another layer that really gets completely ignored and accommodations completely ignored.
And so we want to focus our energy and expertise on trying to help blind people who do get into those facilities, make sure that they can continue to maintain some degree of independence, that they can use their cane, things like that. So that is only a partial answer to your question, the consciousness of everything that's happening and having a great desire to want to do more, but also recognize that we only have so much time, energy, money, imagination.
So if we focus our energy in the areas that really impact blind people rather than jumping into the mainstream, it's not to ignore those issues very clearly, not to ignore those issues. But again, if we're not focusing on the specific impact on blind people, nobody's focusing on that. And I feel that my charge as an elected leader, but our organization, that's what we've been asked to do.
And so that's how I tackle it. My answer may have made it sound easy. It's not easy, and it's heartbreaking to watch what's happening in communities like Minneapolis and even where we have blind people who through their own consciousness are going out to protest, then want to know how we can help when they get into difficult situations. And we have to parse out, well, is it because they were treated differently because they're a blind person or because they were treated unjustly because the laws aren't actually being enforced? Difficult conversations and really difficult things to balance.
Anil Lewis:
So before we drill down with you, President Riccobono, would love to hear what Kelsy and Barbie think about the statement, the comments that you just made.
Kelsy Tallant:
This is Kelsy, I'll take a start at those comments. I agree and kind of try and take the same approach in leadership. There's a lot going on right now and it's not easy. And some of our members come to me with concerns, and all I can do is listen and try my best to help where I can when I can and just do what we can where we can.
Anil Lewis:
Yeah, I get that. How about you, Barbie?
Barbie Elliott:
Yeah, I appreciate what you said President Riccobono, because I think that was a very logical explanation of what we need to do as blind people as a group in the Federation to be supportive, to be calm and collected as we work on things that are not common, they're not very collected. And as I work with people from all walks of life in my job, I see people who are immigrants, and I see people who are ex-convicts who went blind while they were in prison, and they tell their stories. And I hear firsthand the experiences of these people, and I see them as human beings.
And I think sometimes we forget that for every story, for every action that we hear about on the news, there are real people out there experiencing this stuff, even if it's not you, even if it's not me. And I just feel like I can't do anything about that. But I can give my love, support and training to the people that I get to work with every day regardless of where they come from, regardless of what they've been through to say, I've got stuff that can help you, even if it's just a listening ear, I've got something. And I love that the Federation has taught me that we take people where they are and we take people and help them become a better them, whatever that means.
Anil Lewis:
Nice. And I know President Riccobono, you probably don't go around just listening to all of the presentations that you make (Kelsy). So I would imagine that you probably haven't heard what you said during our Access On podcast, which is generally a podcast about technology, but it shows how all these things intersect and overflow with one another. So I'd love for you upon reflecting on hearing your comments, any subtle difference, nuance or anything you'd like to emphasize in what you just said?
President Riccobono:
I think the only thing I would add is that sometimes organizations feel like they should or get public pressure to make these statements of solidarity. And I'm not at all suggesting that that is a negative, but as I have engaged with leaders in the National Federation of the Blind, and I'll say this is largely something that has more been true over the last seven years or so, these statements of solidarity. You know what I have heard from folks from blind people is, fine to make a statement, but we want action.
So this is where we look for, well, what is the intersection with blind people and what can we uniquely do? A lot of blind people or their families bring blind people to the United States because in theory, the opportunities have been better for blind people in this country. And we do get requests around immigration and how to help with immigration, and we're not immigration experts. And so we look to refer them to people who know that area.
And we can provide the expertise, especially when blind people do run into true accessibility barriers in the immigration process, which does happen. But in terms of the technicalities, not our expertise. So this is where these broader social issues also allow us opportunities to be expert and authentic to who we are, but build those relationships with folks who have the expertise that might be relevant to the moment that we're meeting.
Anil Lewis:
Well said.
Melissa Riccobono:
I think that's really important. And I would say too, it's such a tough place to be in, and I don't envy our place because if we react in a certain way, we're going to get pushback by people that don't understand or think that we're acting in a way that they don't agree with. And if we don't say anything, then sometimes we get the blowback of, "Well, where is that NFB? They're just being silent." And I think what people don't understand is really how much thought and reflection goes into these decisions, both to act or to react or not to or when. And also sometimes if we can, I mean, sometimes there are things going on behind the scenes that people don't know about.
I think the Randolph Sheppard is a pretty good example where obviously there's been a lot of problems with people saying, "Well, blind people aren't going to get these contracts anymore and this and that." And so we finally are part of a lawsuit. But that took time before it was ready to be filed.
And so I heard a lot, "Well, where's the NFB? What are they doing?" And then a month or so later, boom, we're part of this lawsuit. But I think people do sometimes tend to get impatient and sort of want everything right away and don't always trust that just because we're not being forthcoming with every single thought we're having, that we're not thinking about it. So those are sort of my thoughts.
Anil Lewis:
I think the part that you said that was, like you said, sounds simple, but it's really the center of it all. We have to focus on the blindness component. I think a lot of people make their determination about us as an organization based on one individual's way of presenting the National Federation of the Blind rather than the organizational perspective. Because the organizational perspective, it's really just about blind people. I mean, we have to recognize, again, we're a subset of society.
We had people that were enjoying the Bad Bunny concert at the Super Bowl, and we had NFB members who were listening to Kid Rock alternative. So we don't weigh in on whether that's the decision to make, but we make sure that blind people have the option, opportunity, skills and ability to participate in whatever they choose to participate in. I think a lot of people miss that because we can be very passionate as individuals around our position around certain things.
But the truth is blindness does not discriminate based on any of those other factors. So as long as we focus on making sure that blindness does not interfere with the individual's ability to fully participate in whatever way they choose, then that's where our focus is. And I think that's what also gives us our strength and our legislative efforts. They're nonpartisan. Blindness, doesn't choose a party, and I just am proud of being a member and so glad that I found the Federation so that I can really pursue my dreams in whatever way I choose.
And blindness will not be that factor that prohibits me from doing that. So again, it's simple to say, but yes, it's very complicated to actually enforce. So again, President Riccobono, I really appreciate you actually having to, sometimes, I don't want to say hide yourself, but focus on that bigger, broader picture of blindness and not what you as Mark Riccobono would personally prefer to do. And that's got to be very challenging for you in many instances.
President Riccobono:
There are things I think we would want to hound on other people about. Blind people aren't getting statements of solidarity on some of our issues. Now, maybe we should work at it more, but we've also said, that's not our goal. We speak for us. We're happy to speak for us, and we are not looking for others to necessarily speak for us, so we're okay with it. But I think there are times that because we built a powerful organization, if we don't say anything, there tends to be a very quick response, but we don't see the same response in the other direction when folks aren't.
And how many people have spoke up against what the Department of the Army is doing related to Randolph Sheppard? Well, only blind people actually. So it's one of those things I'm not encouraging that we beat up on other people for not joining us, but this is where we've taken the approach that we want to influence and have our blind members bring blindness to these other spaces, these other organizations, so that we can have influence by making sure that those spaces are also accessible. So it's an interesting area and I think it's valuable that our community continues to talk about it.
Anil Lewis:
Does anyone have any final thoughts to offer? It's been a good conversation. We went from dealing with the weather to dealing with these overwhelming public issues. This podcast covers the spectrum, ladies and gentlemen.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yes. Yes, it does (laughs). Got kind of serious pretty quickly, which is all right. It's all good. But yeah, I'd love to hear final thoughts from folks.
Barbie Elliott:
I'll go first. I am grateful for this opportunity to participate in this podcast. It's been fun, it's been informative, and I am grateful. And I just want to mention that I am excited that you use my music as your intro outro. That's cool (Anil laughs). It makes me happy just because it does. But most of all, I think it's just fun to belong to a group that cares about blind people as much as we do in the Federation. And I'm grateful to have the opportunity to participate in all kinds of things such as Washington Seminar and this podcast and conventions and conferences and other things that we do. And I hope that others find the same joy that I have found.
Anil Lewis:
Thank you for being with us.
Melissa Riccobono:
We appreciate you too. Yeah. And we love your music. Keep making it.
Barbie Elliott:
Thank you
Melissa Riccobono:
Kelsy, how about you?
Kelsy Tallant:
Well, I'm just honored to be here. I feel like I'm in a room of just so many knowledgeable people, and I'm so grateful for the opportunity to be on this podcast. I've been listening to the Nation's Blind Podcast for a year on my smart speaker just in the background, and was been thinking it would be really cool to be on one of those one day. And here I am. Look at that.
Anil Lewis:
You keep hope alive. You never know.
Kelsy Tallant:
Yeah!
Anil Lewis:
You made it!
Kelsy Tallant:
That's kind of what the Federation has done for me. I just have these ideas of, wow, that'd be really cool. And then they present themselves. And so thank you again, and hopefully I'll be on another podcast someday soon.
Melissa Riccobono:
We'd love to have you. And thank you for listening.
Anil Lewis:
You can dream (Anil and Kelsy laugh).
Kelsy Tallant:
Yes.
Anil Lewis:
We'd love to have you back. President Riccobono.
Melissa Riccobono:
President Riccobono, you get the last word.
President Riccobono:
Well, I would just offer that I encourage all of the listeners of the Nation's Blind Podcast just as we do in our broader organization, to give feedback. What are your thoughts, your ideas? What are your feelings about these topics? This is as blind people, we need to continue to talk about these topics, the light ones and the heavy ones.
And the beauty of what we built in this organization is we may debate vigorously, but at the end of the day, we're going to choose the direction and go in that direction together. But that doesn't mean that leading up to it, we don't have a lot of hard conversations. And so I think this is a great podcast topic to have people give feedback on. And what other hard topics should we be discussing, especially relevant as we run into the five month stretch here until our 2026 national convention which is...
Anil Lewis:
Hey, hey!
President Riccobono:
Where the decisions get made and great to be on with these great ladies. Barbie, of course, she immortalized a statement of mine and song, so I'm always grateful to her for that (Barbie laughs).
Anil Lewis:
Now people are going to pay closer attention to the intro outro music.
President Riccobono:
That's right. That's right.
Barbie Elliott:
That's right (laughs).
Anil Lewis:
Very nice. Well, I appreciate all of you for being here, as always, interacting with our membership and hearing these diverse lived experiences always makes my life much richer. President Riccobono, again, I'm reflecting on the days of the early days of the Nation's Blind Podcast, where we had the presidential segment, but I know we have you all over the place now, so we appreciate the little time that you're still, you haven't forgotten about us little people here on the Nation's Blind, and we appreciate it.
President Riccobono:
I just come when I'm invited now (Anil laughs).
Melissa Riccobono:
Maybe we should invite you a little more often (laughs).
Anil Lewis:
There you go. We'll look at doing that. We give you more presidential privilege. I remember those. But seriously, please take President Riccobono up on this challenge. Give us your ideas. Let us know what you'd like to put out there in that space, and we can take them easier, hard, fun, or serious. And we love having these conversations with our members and the broader conversations with you, our listeners. So thank you. And until next time, remember, you can live the life you want.
Melissa Riccobono:
Blindness is not what holds you back.
Announcer:
We'd love your feedback. Email [email protected] or call 410-659-9314, extension 2444.