Announcer:
Welcome to the Nation's Blind Podcast, presented by the National Federation of the Blind, the transformative membership and advocacy organization of blind Americans. Live the life you want.
Melissa Riccobono:
Hello and welcome to the Nation's Blind Podcast. I'm Melissa Riccobono, and I am here once again with one of my favorite people...
Anil Lewis:
Ane Lewis. And I'm here with one of my favorite people. It's good to see you, Melissa.
Melissa Riccobono:
It's good to see you.
Anil Lewis:
Missed you on the last podcast. Glad you're back.
Melissa Riccobono:
Well, thank you. Yes, I'm very happy to be back. I can't remember, there was something going on with one of my children, I believe.
Anil Lewis:
Isn't there something always going on with children.
Melissa Riccobono:
Or It might've been me, it might've been acupuncture. I don't know. Oh, I think it was acupuncture. I had some vertigo before the new year that was really unpleasant.
Anil Lewis:
Oh, sorry to hear that.
Melissa Riccobono:
A hundred percent do not recommend, but I'm much better now and very happy to be back with all of you. How's your new year going so far?
Anil Lewis:
It's going great. I mean, I'm on the podcast with you. How could it get any better? I think many of our listeners are going to find this particular episode really important. I mean, it's core to who we are and what we do. It's about employment, and I think many people will be very surprised that blind people are engaged in so many different types of careers and jobs. So I'm looking forward to us discussing that and also discussing some of the challenges that blind people face in obtaining employment.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, no, I'm excited. Our fifteen, well, she's not fifteen yet. She'll be fifteen in May, and we were talking over the holiday break and she was saying, "I need to find a job this summer," and her dad and I said, great. Go out there and do it.
Anil Lewis:
That's a great job, parents.
Melissa Riccobono:
And she is legally blind, but she is really excited about it. And she's a true extrovert. So I'm not actually super surprised that she wants to do this, but I am really excited for her. I'm excited for her as she begins this journey. And it sort of made me think about my first job, which was actually at a park where they played baseball and the park had a concession stand, and we sold all sorts of stuff. Chips and candy and popcorn and cheese curds and also beer. And my brother said to me when I was in high school, freshman in high school...
Anil Lewis:
Cheese curds and beer, and you're selling this in high school.
Melissa Riccobono:
And beer, right? Well, it's Wisconsin. Yeah. So he said to me, "Would you like this job? It's cash, so it's once a week and you can have the Monday when the women play softball, so it'll be mostly the women and their kids, and you can have your music on out there and do this and that, but you'll be selling all this stuff, but you're not 18. So somebody does have to be in there with a liquor license." And so my mom actually bless her, went to bartending or went to the little class. It was a bartending class. It wasn't like the whole school, but she got her liquor license so she could tap the beer, and I was able to do all the other selling and things.
Anil Lewis:
You had me nervous for a little while. I see you little underage kids slinging beer mugs.
Melissa Riccobono:
No, no, no, no, no.
Anil Lewis:
I was about to offer the, "The views of the host or not those of the organization."
Melissa Riccobono:
No, we did it right.
Anil Lewis:
Awesome. What a cool job.
Melissa Riccobono:
I mean, it was really a job that had my mom, well, had my brother not asked me, I wouldn't have even known about it, had my mom not been willing because it was way the heck out in the country. It was probably a good fifteen minutes or so from my house. And of course I couldn't drive being born blind. And so my mom was really the one that was able to kind of help me get the job. She helped me get there, and then she also helped me by doing the bartending class. And then when I became eighteen, I actually got my license. And so there were some days that I was out there more by myself. So anyway, it was fun, but there were things, now I think about it and I think, oh, I wish I had had the reader for the money. I mean, that was the biggest thing, especially with little kids, making sure that they gave me the right money, making sure that I was giving them the right change. There were some mistakes once in a while, and I always felt really bad about that. We always worked at it. What was your first job Anil?
Anil Lewis:
Oh, well, I'll talk briefly, but I think we have three guests that we really want to highlight. But my first job that the government actually took out taxes on was working at the Kroger's grocery store, which I was cited at the time, but it gave me a whole lot of skills. I worked as a bass cart person, bagging groceries, then I worked in produce, worked as a cashier, worked in stock, lots of different opportunities, lots of learning. My first job as a blind person was actually a Braille instructor and technology instructor. So some of what we'll talk about today, I guess, will allow me to expound on some of the work I did in those spaces. But let's move to our three guests here. Who would you like to introduce first there Melissa?
Melissa Riccobono:
How about I introduce or just bring in, she can introduce herself. My voice clone, twin. Now our podcast listeners are going to have to tell me if they believe that we sound alike because many, many, many people have told both she and I that we sound very much alike. So this is Lia Stone. How are you, Lia?
Lia Stone:
I am really good, Melissa. Thank you. How are you?
Melissa Riccobono:
I'm doing great. So what was your first job?
Lia Stone:
So my first job, which in retrospect they probably shouldn't have hired me to do this (laughing).
Anil Lewis:
I'm sorry. Hold on just a second. Just a second. Now, listeners, you can't tell me that, that did not sound like Melissa Riccobono. Go right ahead, Lia, go.
Melissa Riccobono:
(Laughing) It doesn't sound like me, but anyway, go on.
Lia Stone:
Go I don't hear it. But yeah. Anyway, so I was hired to be an aide on a school bus during the summer at the school bus company that my mom drove for. And during the summer is when the only kids being transported are kids with pretty significant disabilities who are going to year round school. So it was my job to be the eyes and ears on the bus while my mom was driving. Now, at this point, my eyes did not work. So retrospect, that was maybe not the best safety decision given the length of a bus, for example. But yeah, that was my first job.
Anil Lewis:
So I guess I'll bring Janice in. And we neglected to state that both Lia and Janice are actively working with our NFB employment committee. Hi, Janice.
Janice Forbes:
Hi, Anil. Yes, we are working with this fast approaching date for the Washington Seminar, the career fair at Washington Seminar. So I'll do the same thing. My first job was as a camp counselor, which fit my personality. I ended up in HR. I love people, and I think it was all of the campers ending up on my bunk at night, missing their dog and their brother and their sisters and everything about home. So I've been taking care of people it feels like my whole life. But my first professional job and the job that I do now is in human resources. I looked at it last night, 28 years.
Anil Lewis:
Wow.
Janice Forbes:
I know.
Anil Lewis:
She started when she was two-years-old.
Janice Forbes:
Exactly. I was surprised, but I lost my vision in 2011 and it took me a little bit, but I ended up at the company I am working for now, NIB, and I think it was six years after I started there, I returned to HR. And so now I am a recruiter for NIB, and I love it.
Anil Lewis:
Very nice. We have one more guest there, Melissa, will you do the honors?
Melissa Riccobono:
Sure. Another one of my favorite people whose daughter just had a birthday recently, and he is the president of Washington DC. This is Shawn Callaway. How are you, Sean?
Shawn Callaway:
Oh, Melissa, I'm doing fine, by the way, you do sound like Lia.
Anil Lewis:
And Melissa, just to give you a little ammunition, now people tell me that I look like Shawn.
Melissa Riccobono:
Oh, that's hilarious.
Anil Lewis:
I count that as a compliment. I count that as a compliment. If they tell me I look as good as Shawn, then I'm saying yes. Thank you.
Melissa Riccobono:
I'm happy to sound like Lia. I just don't hear it. Anyway, so what was your first job, Shawn?
Shawn Callaway:
Well, my first job, I actually worked for Domino's Pizza. I flipped pizzas, man. I flipped them. And yeah, I was in 10th grade and I flipped pizzas for Domino's. And then after I experienced my vision loss, my first job after my vision loss was I worked for Catholic Charities. I was a social worker.
Anil Lewis:
Oh, nice.
Shawn Callaway:
Yeah, working in social work, coming straight out of grad school. So that was my first gig. I worked at sort of a clinic working with individuals who experienced substance abuse. So that was way back in 2002.
Anil Lewis:
Now, Janice shared a little about what she's doing now. Lia, what are you doing? And Shawn, what are you doing professionally now?
Lia Stone:
So I do a lot of things. Like Shawn, I also have an MSW, and I'm a licensed social worker. I am a child and adolescent therapist at a telehealth agency. I do some digital accessibility work and freelance tech recruiting when the market isn't on fire. But my new day job where I am hiding in a supply room right now for this call is as a VR counselor at our state's blindness agency.
Anil Lewis:
Nice. Now, you do know that this is a podcast you're participating on that will be available in all these streaming venues, right.
Lia Stone:
I've got a union. I'm good. This is my lunch break (laughing).
Anil Lewis:
Okay, good (laughing).
How about you, Shawn?
Shawn Callaway:
Well, currently I work for the US Department of Health and Human Services, work under the administration on community eleven. So I'm a project officer and I primarily work with the traumatic brain injury programs. We call them TBI state partnership programs that we fund in thirty one states. Also, I have a part-time job. I'm a case manager, part-time case manager for the Columbia Lighthouse for the Blind. So mainly I do case management, of course, psychosocial assessments and conduct peer support groups. So love both jobs. Can't complain at all.
Anil Lewis:
Nice.
Shawn Callaway:
Oh, can I mention the federation is a job too? Well, is that's just volunteer?
Anil Lewis:
(Laughing) Well, if you're doing it right, the federation can be a job, but it's one of the most wonderful jobs a person can have.
Shawn Callaway:
I totally agree. Totally agree.
Anil Lewis:
So we're trying to explore the different aspects of employment around well blind people being employed. And so many people like to talk about the dismal statistic. They say it's seventy five percent unemployment rate of blind people, and we put out some information in our social media and it was interesting that some of the comments were kind of contesting the figure. But the thing that I find interesting, well, let me just put this out there. The thing that I find interesting is people will argue, well, it's not seventy-five percent, it's more like sixty-five percent, like that's better. Okay, sixty-five percent is still atrocious. I do think that we have to deal with that issue. Just curious, what do you guys think the major barriers are to actual full and gainful employment of people who are blind?
Shawn Callaway:
I would say that when you have adults, Anil, who are losing their vision and they're relying on their state agency in regards to obtaining employment, I'm not calling the state agency a barrier because they've helped many people, including myself, obtain employment. But I believe because of the financial strain these days, I believe that in my humble opinion, that adequate training, I mean systemic adequate training, I'm not talking about four days of JAWS and training is over. I mean, I think this training is due to financial constraints and agencies saying we don't have enough money. People are not getting the real good training to really help them become employable again. I really believe that.
Anil Lewis:
When you say training right now, you're talking about adjustment to blindness training and blindness, alternative skills of blindness training.
Shawn Callaway:
That and also assistive technology training because people get training, Anil, but the training now, and I can't speak for all over the country, of course our training centers are phenomenal, so I'm excluding them. But when you talk about sort of the agencies, a lot of agencies around the country, it's called this microwavable training, right? Just give you these quick few weeks of training and think you can really be prepared for employment, and it's not happening.
Anil Lewis:
Ladies, what do you think?
Janice Forbes:
I agree wholeheartedly. At NIB, we've interviewed many blind job seekers and we ask about what training have you received? And some of them will say, "Well, I did have keyboarding, but that was two years ago, and I know it's not still the same as it was when I graduated that program." And relying alone on VR to provide training is that's not going to cut it. Not in today's environment because we're all competing against each other, not just blind people to blind people, but blind people to sighted people, that's the real world, and we have to compete with the skills. So, our skills can't be missing this for the last two years. I agree with Shawn. Technology is a huge component. If you are like me, you get these Windows updates it seems like every week, and you have to figure out what's new, how you have to maneuver differently to get the same task done. So I agree. I think training is number one.
Anil Lewis:
How about you, Leah?
Lia Stone:
Yeah, I really want to echo the training piece. I do think that that's really essential, and I tell anybody who will listen that if I didn't go to the Colorado Center right after I finished my MSW, I don't know that I would have had the career that I have at this point or the experiences that I've had. So I think lack of access to blindness skills training is a huge barrier to employment because if you are not confident with especially assistive tech, you're going to have a hard time. But I also think we can't ignore that we are still fighting back against low expectations from employers around the country in every industry that, "Blind people can't do this. And how could a blind person possibly do that? And well, I can't imagine how a blind person does this. So I'm simply going to look at the next resume in this pile." That kind of attitude is still, I think, very prevalent.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, I think our guests have such good points and we actually have some interesting, at least one interesting social media answer that is a little bit like this, but different. But before we get into all that and much more, why don't we pause to hear this ad?
Ad:
The National Federation of the Blind wants to help you transform your career aspirations into reality. Sign up for our 2025 Washington seminar in-person career fair on February 3 from 12:00 to 2:00 p.m., Eastern. This career fair provides a unique platform for blind and low vision job seekers to actively engage with employers committed to hiring talented blind people. Register today at nfb.org/employment.
Melissa Riccobono:
Alright, welcome back. We did ask on social media what were the major barriers to employment and what would it take to increase employment opportunities for blind people? And a few of the responses, I'm sorry, Tuh-sah-bee, perhaps? T as in Tom, a-s-a-b as in boy, i-h, I'm sorry if I'm saying your name wrong or happy if I'm saying it right from Illinois says,"One of the biggest barriers to employment for blind people is that advocacy efforts often focus on securing high level or professional jobs, which while important, overlooks a critical issue, the highest unemployment rates for blind individuals could possibly be in entry level positions like fast food, retail, and restaurant jobs. These roles are essential for young blind people to gain foundational work experience, build confidence, and develop transferable skills. When these opportunities are unavailable, it leaves many blind youth without experience needed to advance in their careers, leading to a loss of motivation and inspiration as they transition into adulthood.
To address this, we need to advocate for inclusion at all levels of employment, ensuring that blind individuals have access to the same stepping stones as their sighted peers. Employers in these industries need better education and support to understand how blind employees can be valuable contributors to their workforce. And young blind people need the support and the training to work in these environments as well." I think that's a really interesting point. Definitely something that youth, that's why I was so excited to see our daughter say right away, she wants a job. I don't know what barriers are going to look like for her. She's really good at babysitting, so she might take that route. And there's lots of families with young kids in our neighborhood, and so she might be a mother's helper/nanny over the summer, and she is only fifteen. And so a lot of the stores around here don't want to hire fifteen-year-olds yet. But it's a really good point about entry level jobs, and that's why it was so important for me to get the concession stand job because I knew McDonald's in my small town wasn't going to hire me.
Anil Lewis:
And I think it begs the point that our guests have said, though, those fundamental blindness skills are still key because you wouldn't have been able to be successful if you didn't have those fundamental blindness skills. I agree. Corporal Connor and I used to joke all the time, he says, "Young blind people don't have enough bad job opportunities," because once you become a professional, working at a fast food restaurant, that's a bad job. Working at a grocery store, that's a bad job. But I have to tell you, some of the best people skills, the best problem solving skills, my customer service, my work ethic, all were manifest in that Kroger's experience. I couldn't have learned that in any place else other than that. So yeah, having our blind students really engage in those types of jobs actually help them develop a real employable skillset.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, no, I totally agree. And they're doing things with their peers too, and they're gaining friendships. I mean, there's so much that type of work can do.
Shawn Callaway:
And I agree with that. It's funny you mentioned that when I worked at Domino's, I was, like I said, a high school student, fully sighted. We had a person, individual with low vision who worked at Domino's, right? And this was in the late eighties, and so it can be done and it can be done. It is just opportunities have to be presented and awareness needs to be brought to these type of companies, so absolutely. Absolutely right.
Anil Lewis:
Yeah, and that's one of the barriers that blind people face with respect to any job as well, making sure that the job is accessible to blind individuals. And a lot of people think that that means you got to engage a lot more money for the employer, etc, and that's usually not the case. I have so many examples when I used to do job placement of how we went in to make a job more accessible for a blind person to perform it, but also create opportunities for even the sighted people in that environment to be more productive because some of the stuff that we implement towards accessibility are really just best practice for an employment environment, period.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, it's really interesting. One of my first jobs actually, well, aside from my work in college at the disability service office, my first job after grad school was in a women's shelter. And I don't know, I must've given a heck of an interview because they truly did not know how they were going to make things accessible. But instead of having the attitude that, well, we don't know how it's going to be done, so we're not going to hire her, it was we're going to hire her because we have the faith that she can tell us how to do it. And so often that's just not, I don't know how I got so lucky. I think it helped a little bit that I was quite overqualified for the job. They were looking for somebody with a high school diploma, and here I was with a master's degree in counseling. So I'm sure that helped some, but I mean, it was so simple. Once they started saying, okay, this is what you're going to have to do, I said, well, one thing was the logbook. They didn't have anything on computers. Everything was handwritten. And I said, okay, here's a little tape recorder. If you guys could just read the log and keep me updated on this cassette tape, when I come into my shift, I'll listen to what everybody reported and I'll know what's going on. Well, how will you know what room is which? Well, I'll put Braille on the doors. I mean, it was so simple. But I look back on that and just think it could have been so different, but they were willing to take that chance on me. And luckily I had the ideas and I did have some equipment. I had a printer that I brought to the job so I could print out my log entries. I was lucky to have that. I mean was certainly, there were certainly some things that I brought that were good that I had just in my disposal, because otherwise they would've maybe had to provide something for me, but they didn't.
Anil Lewis:
You said simple. And I think that's one of the barriers too. We may think that it's simple, but society unfortunately thinks that blind people don't have. I mean even our guests here, when they introduce themselves, there are people who are listening saying, I can't believe that they're working in HR and social work, etc. Just out of curiosity, what type of accommodations or interventions did you guys need in order to be productive in your patrols and professions?
Janice Forbes:
It was a computer with fusion on it. When I started. There were two separate softwares, JAWS and ZoomText, but that was, and a large monitor. Those were the only accommodations I requested.
Anil Lewis:
And for the few people who may not really know, the fusion is a combination of speech access to a computer and also large print access to the computer.
Shawn Callaway:
Yeah, I was going to say definitely for me, computer with JAWS, and that was, yeah, I was good to go once I had that. Quite honestly. When I hear Melissa talk, I mean she brought back memories because I was in the same situation. Of course, I said, I worked for Catholic Charities and it's Catholic Charities, so they were very, very accommodated. They didn't know what to do, but they relied on me to tell them what I needed them to do. And it was a very rewarding job, quite honestly, because they gave me the opportunity to let them know how to accommodate me and the next person who may come behind me. But to answer your question, definitely Anil, it was the computer with the JAWS screen reader.
Lia Stone:
Yeah, computer with JAWS and software that played nicely with JAWS is all that I needed.
Anil Lewis:
I love it. Software that played nicely with JAWS, which again begs the whole question that that's why we fight to make sure that websites and applications are accessible because just with those simple modifications, which are truly best practice, we can create opportunities for blind people to have some really dynamic jobs.
Melissa Riccobono:
Absolutely. So there are lots of barriers, and there's actually really interesting comments from social media that we're probably not going to get to. So just search National Federation of the Blind on Facebook and just look for this post because there's some great thoughts about our social security, that type of thing. I know we always advocate for the end of the earnings cliff so people aren't penalized for working. And that's a whole other thing. And going beyond your comfort zone is a big theme. But obviously once you're able to come beyond some of these things, people are employed and we in the National Federation of the Blind really want to help people become employed. And one of those things that we do is our career fair and also our Where the Blind Work webinars. But before we talk a little bit about those things, I'd love to hear from our guests, what are five tips that you would give blind job seekers to help them become successfully employed? Lia, why don't we start with you?
Lia Stone:
I really like that social media comment that we've read before because it kind of ties in with some of what I've got here. So I will just say prior to this, I worked in a transition program for four and a half years with blind high school and college students. And not to toot my own horn, but I was very good at what I did in terms of finding my students jobs, especially in some of those unskilled roles like at restaurants or fast food or retail that we were talking about before. And one of biggest tips that I want to share is learn to find a job like anyone else would. What does that mean? I notice that a lot of the blindness agencies, vo rehab, people really focus on things related to blindness when it comes to job preparation, job searching applications, things like that. And I'm not saying that stuff is not important, but it glosses over the really essential skills that everybody, blind, sighted, abled, otherwise need to find any kind of job at all. So I am going to plug my favorite blog. Alison Green is a Queen. Ask a manager has a fantastic resources for sprucing up your resume, getting a cover letter that works. I've used her advice to get a lot of my students work in the past. I've used it to get jobs myself in the past. It is job advice for everybody. It is not blindness specific. So that is, that's one piece of advice. I would also really strongly advise everybody, especially if you're looking for a more white collar oriented work, bruce up your LinkedIn. If you're sitting there thinking, "Oh, what's LinkedIn?" Let's start there. Get yourself a LinkedIn if you're not there yet. Genuinely, and Janice may be able to back me up on this one, but LinkedIn is a recruiter's best friend. And so if you are not on LinkedIn, you are being passed by recruiters depending on what industry you're in. So I very much encourage people to make LinkedIn profiles, make use of LinkedIn, think of it like a gym. It works if you work it. That was only two pieces of advice, but I feel like I'm talking a lot.
Melissa Riccobono:
(Laughing) They're really good pieces. Why don't we go to Janice? You're all about helping people get jobs, Janice. You're a recruiter. So what are your tips?
Janice Forbes:
Yes, I've had a lot of great interviews in the past with blind people, and when you find someone who's prepared and ready and eager, it just knocks your socks off. You just stand in awe of the person. One thing that I had to figure out when I was interviewing was, okay, so you're at the interview or you're at the job fair. So what do I do with my coat, my cane, my resume, which can be in a portfolio? What do I do with the business cards I receive and a note taker? What can I do inorder to approach the interview or get to the table at the job fair? That's a lot to maneuver. So my advice would be to get to the place of the interview or the job fair, at least thirty minutes, twenty minutes if you can, early to find a place to hang your coat, find a place to put down any extra materials that won't serve you well, walking through that career fair. It's a more professional presentation, don't you think?
Melissa Riccobono:
I would think so. Or I would think maybe carrying a briefcase or something that holds some of that. Really figuring out what it is you need. And I think what you would take to an interview table is probably a little bit different than what you would take to a job fair. I'd say a job fair, you're traveling a little bit more light, maybe you leave your coat somewhere else or don't bring one depending on where you are. But I think that's really good advice. And maybe it is a nice briefcase or something. Again, you want to dress well, so it should be something that looks quite nice and professional. But I think there's nothing wrong with carrying a small bag or maybe a slightly bigger bag that has some of your resumes that has maybe a pocket where you put or a case where you put all those business cards that you receive and where you can have your note taker. And if you need it, you can pull it out quickly. Yeah, that's really good advice.
Janice Forbes:
Thank you. Another one is to have someone you trust critique your interview outfit. And my advice would be to have three interview outfits, because what'll happen is you'll get that offer to come in for an interview and you don't want to have to go through the same thing. So while you're putting one outfit together, put three together, three or four, just so you're ready. The shirt has been picked up from the cleaners, you have your socks, you're lined up, you have everything ready to go. That happened to me one career fair that I went to. They wanted to see me the next morning and my head was spinning. I'm like, I don't even know where I'm going to find something else to...
Anil Lewis:
What a great problem to have. That's nice. But take
Janice Forbes:
But take care of it ahead of time. It's easy. If you're always ready, then you don't have to get ready.
Anil Lewis:
Yeah. Oh, look at that. That's a T-shirt.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, that's great. That's really, really good. And I would say too, at the job fair, so I was a school counselor back in the day and I went to a huge job fair where schools were looking for all kinds of different positions, and I could have just gone to all these different tables, but not everybody was looking for a school counselor, and I wasn't a teacher, so I mean, it would've been a lot worse for me to walk around on my own and go to every table, but every table had a sign saying what they were looking for. And so my person's job was simply to be a reader, to walk around with me, read the sign. If she said, oh, this one's looking for a counselor, then she would completely step back out of the way. She might give me like, go straight ahead. Do you hear that person talking? That's the right table. There's two people in front of you. But she would completely step back, be out of their field of vision so that they weren't going to talk to her, they were going to talk to me. But that really allowed me to be efficient, going around the job fair and only hitting the tables, which really needed what I had to offer.
Anil Lewis:
You mentioned the career fair and our employment committee has been working career fairs for a while. Think Suzanne Thornton started it when Dick Davis was president, and this cohort now it's really continuing to move into that next level. Shawn, you're helping coordinate our upcoming career fair at the Washington Seminar. You want to tell our listeners about it?
Shawn Callaway:
Yeah, man, I'll tell you. I always look forward to Washington Seminar Career Fair, sort of a sub of the wonderful career fair that happens at our National Convention, which is very robust and just lovely. But this year we will have a career fair on February 3rd at the Capitol Holiday Inn from 12:00 to 2:00 p.m. and we'll have several employers there. And again, be prepared. I'm thankful to Nikki Jackson who's assisting along with Lia and Janice as well, with preparing this job fair for blind job seekers. It's been going pretty much at the Washington Seminar anyway for at least ten years. But again, we will have employers from the public and private sector, federal government employers, state agencies as well. So I believe we do have webinars to prepare individuals who want to participate in the job fair. Of course, you can go to nfb.org to find that information. But again, we are looking for confident job seekers looking ready to be employed, Anil.
Anil Lewis:
Sounds great. Looking forward to it myself. One piece of advice I'll give job seekers, especially blind job seekers, is flip the script. So many people think blind people come in, they're going to be a burden. They have lack of capacity. And one of the things I continue to instill in all of our transition age youth when we're working through all of our many employment and career related programs from the National Federation of the Blind, is to tell them that you leave your house every day to interact in a world that's not made for blind people, but you're still able to successfully navigate and get the information that you need in order to be a fully participating member of society. And you do that through a select set of problem solving skills. You do that through a select perspective that is unique to most people that are out there, and all these are really transferable skillsets. I can't think of any team that would not want someone who comes to that table with the unique set of problem solving skills and also that unique perspective to address and consider problems and opportunities. So turn it into a positive.
Shawn Callaway:
And Anil, I was going to say, when Melissa had asked the question about the tips, I mean you kind of hit the nail on the head in regards to just being confident. Confidence is very important with a lot of these employers. If they see any sense of you're unsure, you're not confident on being a part of the job, they're going to X you out off the break because some of them, not all of them, but some already have these misconceptions about you being able to do the job anyway. So if you come in there with that confidence that shows them that you are ready and willing to do the job that you are applying for.
Anil Lewis:
That's it. And then they're going to say, you need to come in for a second interview the next day, so you need to have your new outfit ready.
Melissa Riccobono:
That's right. I think too, with that, I think all these were wonderful tips, but I would just say one more quick thing, which is if you are at a job and you aren't really sure how you're going to do something, I think that's okay too because you do need to be honest, you have to be confident, but you also have to be honest, and this is really where, at least for me, where the National Federation of the Blind truly helped me get my first job as a counselor because I could say, you know what? I probably haven't thought of every single thing that I'm going to need to do in this job, but I know many other blind counselors who are doing jobs that are similar to this one. And so if I come across anything that I don't know how to do, I have people that I have a network already and I can ask them questions, and I'm sure, I have no doubt that we're going to be able to figure out ways for me to do this job. And so you don't always have to know all the answers either. I think it's very unfair, and I think we are often held to a much higher standard and asked much more of us.
"What if? What if? What if? What if?" than any sighted person is asked. And it is really okay not to know. But I think along with the training that I think is so critical and that people should get, I think having some kind of a network of other blind people who are in your specific employment field or who are just good people all the way around and will just help you problem solve and brainstorm, that's just essential to helping you be able to be confident and get those jobs.
Anil Lewis:
Before I let you guys offer any closing comments, I do want to state one thing based on some of the feedback I saw from the Facebook post. We recognize that it's frustrating to build on what Lia said earlier. My phrase is, it's a full-time job to get a full-time job.
Melissa Riccobono:
Amen (laughing).
Anil Lewis:
Lot of people think that it's going to be easier than it is, but it is a lot of work. And you're not just being frustrated because you're blind, you're being frustrated because it's hard to find a good job that you want. So I just want you to stay strong and continue to build that network, find that support group, and not just individuals who can help you find a job, but people can who can help you deal with the frustration of not finding one. So just continue to fight that good fight and it'll happen. So do you guys have anything you want to offer to our listeners before we wrap this one up?
Janice Forbes:
I do.
Anil Lewis:
Go ahead, Janice.
Janice Forbes:
I just wanted to make sure that for those attending the career or any career fair, you got to follow up. Ask for the person's phone number, email. I'll call you in one week and make sure you do so because a lot of employers tell me they had great conversations. They have the resume, but people do not follow through. And that's sighted and blind. The vast majority of people who attend career fairs, it's missed. The link is missed to the potential employer because of lack of follow through.
Anil Lewis:
Good point.
Melissa Riccobono:
Really good point. Shawn, do you have anything to add?
Shawn Callaway:
I mean, it's pretty much off, but I'm going to put it in the air. For those who are listening who are job seekers, I'm confident that you will be employed, but when you become employed, be prepared to give back.
Anil Lewis:
Amen.
Shawn Callaway:
One thing I learned from my mentor, my friend, and my brother, Anil Lewis, is that what is given to you, you give back to others. And once you acquire that job, find ways to give back. Tell people your story on how you obtain employment, because blind people need to see other blind people, how they move, how they have acquired jobs. And so I just ask everyone who's seeking jobs, once you get your job, just give back in regards to just talking to people on how you acquired employment, because that will definitely help the next person when they're seeking employment as well.
Melissa Riccobono:
Lia, how about you?
Lia Stone:
Yeah, so Shawn and Janice made excellent points, so I don't want to repeat, but I will just say to piggyback off of Anil's point about how it is a job, I would say for those of you who are looking for employment or new opportunities, if you're already employed, mindset is everything. I have my therapist hat on for this. But mindset truly is everything because looking for a job is a full-time job, but it's also a very demoralizing and difficult job, and it's very easy to get discouraged. But focus on cultivating an open and positive mindset towards your employment search and focus on ensuring you have a community of people around you, like say in the National Federation of the Blind, or even just your friends and family to support you because nobody does this alone, and it is really hard to do solo. This is a much less miserable process with a little help from your friends.
Melissa Riccobono:
And I would just say too, think about the skills that you have. You might have your dream job, but maybe your dream job's not falling in your lap. What would be something else that could use similar skills that you'd be still happy doing at least for a while? Well, maybe you're still looking for that dream job. I tell people all the time to think outside the box. Okay, I want to be a counselor. Well, I mean counselor, you're going to be with people. So that's kind of how I went into my shelter job. There was some counseling involved, but mostly it was just waiting for the phone to ring. And that was fine. But I think we sometimes get so caught up as this is the only job I want, or this is what I was trained for, so it's the only job I can do. And when you really look at it, that's really selling yourself short. And there might be other jobs out there that you could apply for, and maybe it's applying for some of those that you think, "I'm never going to get this, but I'm going to apply anyway. I would like something like this." And so those types of things I think is important too.
Anil Lewis:
And there's only so much we can cover in this podcast. So if you want more information around ways that we, the National Federation of the Blind can help you find gainful employment, please visit nfb.org/employment and we can talk to you about acquiring good positive blindness skills. We can talk to you about getting good training for a variety of different employment opportunities. We can talk to you about interest evaluations that can give you information about jobs you probably never even thought of. We can talk to you about strategies for preparing for resume, preparing for an interview, all those things. We can work, but we can't do it in less than an hour. But we tried.
Melissa Riccobono:
No, we can't (laughing).
Anil Lewis:
We tried. Hopefully this has been a helpful conversation and hopefully it will stimulate people to take action to really claim the type of employment that they would like in the future. And until then, remember, you can live the life you want.
Melissa Riccobono:
Blindness is not what holds you back.
Announcer:
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