Announcer:
Welcome to the Nation's Blind Podcast presented by the National Federation of the Blind, the transformative membership and advocacy organization of blind Americans. Live the life you want.
Melissa Riccobono:
Hello and welcome to the Nation's Blind Podcast. I am Melissa Riccobono and my favorite pie is chocolate peanut butter pie. Anil Lewis, my wonderful co-host, what is your favorite pie?
Anil Lewis:
Wow, that caught me off guard (Melissa laughs). Hi listeners (Anil and Melissa laugh)! My favorite pie, I guess a sweet potato pie. Yeah, let's go with that. Sweet potato pie.
Melissa Riccobono:
Oooh, that's about as southern as it comes.
Anil Lewis:
Or pecan. Pecan pie.
Melissa Riccobono:
Ooh, pecan is good too.
Anil Lewis:
Why are you talking about pie, Melissa? Why you got us talking about pie?
Melissa Riccobono:
What's the date today? Do you know the date today?
Anil Lewis:
March 14th.
Melissa Riccobono:
Right. So what does that have to do about pie? Do you know?
Anil Lewis:
It's not the eyes of March.
Melissa Riccobono:
No. Oh, beware though. Beware of the eyes of March, yeah.
Anil Lewis:
Let's see, 3.14? Maybe.
Melissa Riccobono:
(Gasp) Anil, you are so smart. Yes, it is Pi Day.
Anil Lewis:
I am so smart. S-M-R-T. Smart, smart, smart (Melissa laughs).
Melissa Riccobono:
This is going to be an awesome episode. I can already tell (laughs).
Anil Lewis:
No, I've peaked out, Melissa (Melissa and Anil laugh). It's all downhill from here. Hopefully we have some help talking about pi.
Melissa Riccobono:
We do. We do. But yes, pi, 3.14159 and don't ask me to go any further.
Anil Lewis:
Look at you showing off.
Melissa Riccobono:
Now I do know. I don't know if she listens, but Lindsay Yazalino, one of our scientific people.
Anil Lewis:
She's amazing.
Melissa Riccobono:
She knows at least a hundred digits of pi in order to and can recite them.
Anil Lewis:
I wouldn't be surprised, yeah.
Melissa Riccobono:
I don't know how. Anyway, I'm not math-minded. I'm not science-minded. But we do have help. And we're not just talking about baking. I started with pie. No, we're not talking about pie, that kind of pie that I started with. We're talking about mathematical pi. And we have somebody that's going to help us talk about mathematical pi, at least a little bit. We're not going to dwell, I don't think, too much on pi, on Pi Day. But we are going to be talking about a fantastic program that we have in the National Federation of the Blind called STEM2U.
STEM, for those that don't know, stands for Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math. And we in the NFB have really been the trendsetters, the people who have said, "Blind people can do science." And that starts with blind kids because kids are people too. And so way back in 2004, we were having Science Academy where kids were dissecting dogfish sharks and doing all sorts of stuff. We were having our Rocket On Academy where the kids went to Wallops Island and worked with NASA to actually build and launch a real rocket.
And they were on the crew and I mean, just amazing, amazing stuff. And so the person now who's in charge of science programs, or at least it helps with the STEM2U program is Ashleigh Moon. Hi, Ashleigh. How are you?
Ashleigh Moon:
Hey, guys. How's it going?
Anil Lewis:
It's going great.
Melissa Riccobono:
It's going great. So tell us about pi, Ashleigh. What is the significance of pi in geometry?
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah. So you guys were talking about all your different flavors of pie, so I need to just throw mine in there since we're on the subject. I love coconut cream pie.
Melissa Riccobono:
Oooh.
Ashleigh Moon:
It's not everybody's favorite, but I love it.
Anil Lewis:
Nice.
Melissa Riccobono:
And pies are circle, by the way. So you could measure your pie, you could measure the circumference of your pie, right? And how would one, if one wanted to (Anil and Ashleigh laugh), how would one go about measuring the circumference of their pie?
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah. So if you were to draw a line straight through the center point of your pie, let's say you're slicing it straight through the middle, that's going to be your diameter from one end to the other. A lot of students will also know radius, which is half of the diameter, but let's just stick with the diameter. So when we're talking about the diameter and pie, the relationship there is that the diameter of your circle will go around your circle, 3.14159, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah times. So if you wanted to find the circumference or measure the complete perimeter of your circle, that's going to be your diameter times pi.
Anil Lewis:
That was never explained to me that way because now I can visualize having a string from one end of the circle through the center to the other. And then taking that string, you saying if I take that string and I use it to trace around the circumference of the circle, that string will go around 3.14. It'll take three lengths of that string plus point.
Melissa Riccobono:
Plus a little more.
Anil Lewis:
Yeah.
Ashleigh Moon:
Yep.
Anil Lewis:
Wow.
Ashleigh Moon:
Exactly.
Melissa Riccobono:
And you can do it with spherical things too. Like if you blew a bubble, you can also measure somehow ... I don't know if there ... Anyway, I think there might be a different formula for a sphere.
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah, that's getting into some more complicated (laughs).
Melissa Riccobono:
But that's the first time I ever heard about pi was in sixth grade, we did this big bubble blowing contest and we were trying to figure out how big of a bubble we could make. And then my teacher was talking all about the science of bubbles and then about how you could measure actually truly how big the bubble is around or how big the bubble, like how much space they take up in ... Yeah. It was very interesting, but kind of confused me. To be honest, math was never really my favorite thing (Anil and Melissa laugh).
Anil Lewis:
Well, geometry I liked and algebra I liked, and they have common sense kind of uses for them, but the calculus and all the other stuff that...
Melissa Riccobono:
Oh yeah, no, no.
Anil Lewis:
I know they have more engineering specific, but you need algebra if you want to go shopping.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah. Oh yeah, algebra and statistics. I love statistics.
Anil Lewis:
Oooh (laughs).
Melissa Riccobono:
Anyway, let's not talk about us. Ashleigh, start thinking. We have to stop for a message in a minute. So start thinking about what your favorite subject was in school and why. We will get back to that as soon as we hear this message. You're listening to the Nation's Blind Podcast.
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Advocacy matters. When documents aren't accessible, speak up. Ask agencies how they're meeting Title II requirements. File complaints when barriers continue. Agencies are responding. Using its augmented media remediation platform, Pneuma Solutions has remediated millions of documents in weeks, not years. To learn more about what Title II means for you, visit www.title2.info. Accessibility is not a privilege. It's a right.
Melissa Riccobono:
All right. Welcome back. So Ashleigh...
Anil Lewis:
We kind of threw Ashleigh into the mix without letting her even introduce herself.
Melissa Riccobono:
Exactly. So maybe we should let her introduce herself first. Yeah, let's do that.
Anil Lewis:
We know who she is but our listeners don't know.
Melissa Riccobono:
We do, but people don't. Yeah. Ashleigh, why don't you introduce yourself, please?
Ashleigh Moon:
(Chuckles) Sure, so my name is Ashleigh Moon and I am excited to be the current program coordinator for NFB STEM2U, which you guys talked a little bit about already. And I'm sure we're going to talk some more about in a little while. I've been working with blind youth in the areas of STEM for, I guess, more than ten years now. I really love science and I really love bringing accessibility to our blind kiddos so that they can participate equally.
Anil Lewis:
So of the STEM, you like the science over the technology, engineering and mathematics?
Ashleigh Moon:
I would definitely say that the science part is where my most interest is. Technology, I hear about all these computer programmers and they just love it and it just doesn't click for me (Melissa and Anil laugh). Coding is not my thing. Engineering is fun. I like engineering. There's a lot of math. You got to love your math. And I do love math and I'm excited because my daughter who just turned seven also loves math and she's got a real great math brain. So it's exciting for me to see that.
Anil Lewis:
Nice. Very nice.
Melissa Riccobono:
That is so exciting. My oldest and youngest both inherited their dad's and my dad and their dad both have or had very good math brains. Now, in some ways it's hard because for both of them, they're just both very automatically good at math and it just makes sense to them. And they're so good that teachers often say, "Well, work with so-and-so and help them." And both of them are like, "I can't..."
Ashleigh Moon:
It just is.
Melissa Riccobono:
"Help them. It just works." It's just the answer. It just is. I can't explain it. And that's how my dad was. There was several tears when I asked my dad for (laughs) help with math homework, he would just pound the table. "It just is. Write it down." I'd say, "But why? I need to understand because you're not going to be there on the test." And my nephew's the same way. So anyway, can your daughter explain it? I mean, she's little yet, so there's not as much to explain.
Ashleigh Moon:
We're working on that part. I think I'm part of the problem because her teacher is teaching her the abacus, which is great. I never learned on an abacus, so I'm not a big fan of it myself. And so when she's sitting there counting beads and she knows that she can just do it in her head because that's how I taught her, it's kind of an interesting situation because then we have to talk through why it is the way it is. And that's where the abacus comes in for her. So it's good that she's learning it.
Anil Lewis:
It's good to have manipulatives. We didn't have actual abacuses. It was interesting. My mom, God bless her. When we were first starting off with the mathematics, she created (laughs), we called it our ghetto abacus. She had a clothes hanger and she would use clothes pins on the clothes hanger to...
Ashleigh Moon:
If it works, it works.
Anil Lewis:
Yeah, exactly.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah. Gosh, your mom, I would've loved to meet your mom. And I know you would've loved to meet my dad, so we're even (laughs).
Anil Lewis:
(Laughs) Absolutely. Your dad and I would've been boys. We would've been fast friends. Yes.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yes. Yes, you would've. So Ashleigh, did you have a favorite subject in school? Was it a STEM related subject? Were you always a science kid or always a math kid? Or did that love of science or math or technology or engineering come later?
Ashleigh Moon:
I would say I've always been pretty academic. I loved school. I loved all the subjects. I think probably when I was in seventh or eighth grade, it must've been that I took an actual biology class in junior high and we started to learn about DNA and that just really attracted me. I loved the idea of DNA. I loved learning about it. So I think that's probably where that started.
And then as I went into high school and got into AP biology and learned a lot more, and I was pretty lucky my high school had a lot of college level offerings. And so I was able to take a biotechnology class my senior year. And then I was able to go into college and I studied molecular biology. And that's my most area of interest, I would say. I love all the little things, all the little parts of biology and cells that create life. I think it's really interesting.
Anil Lewis:
The only thing I remember about biology is the word, "polypeptide" because I got it wrong on the test.
Ashleigh Moon:
Oh no (laughs)!
Anil Lewis:
I remember because I got that wrong. I never liked biology anymore. When you were matriculating asking, did you have to make your own accommodations or did you run into instructors that were able to make the experiences accessible?
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah. Yeah. So when I was first learning science, I was not blind yet. So I lost my sight when I was about thirteen, fourteen, like my freshman year of high school. So early on, I mean, my interest was already there. So I think that was a big part of it is that I was very motivated. So I was very lucky to have teachers that kind of took in that motivation and wanted to make it work. So I had teachers that were very willing to find strategies to make things work, creating our own tactile graphics, creating our own manipulatives, things like that.
It wasn't until I got to college that I had struggles with instructors (chuckles) not being quite so accommodating (Anil laughs). I mean, luckily, again, my motivation was there, so I was able to kind of push through that. But yeah, I think I was really, really lucky to have such great teachers through high school that kind of supported me and helped me realize that there were a lot of ways we could make this work. So by the time I did encounter those issues, I was prepared for them.
Anil Lewis:
Nice.
Melissa Riccobono:
And I don't know why that is. I mean, it seems like it happens a lot where the high school teachers, maybe it's because they're just so excited that somebody likes what they like (laughs) because they have kids that have to be in their class maybe.
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah, that's a good point.
Melissa Riccobono:
But college, I mean, to a certain ... If you're a professor, you, I'm guessing, at least at one point had a love for the subject. Why wouldn't you want to pass that on and inspire the next generation? I don't understand that if it's something...
Anil Lewis:
And the nature of the disciplines lean itself toward it. I mean, STEM, you want to be a problem solver.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yes! Right!
Anil Lewis:
You're looking for those challenges and you want to be creative and do something. It's really interesting to find someone who's supposed to be teaching it that doesn't have that inner kind of drive. Ashleigh, can you share a personal experience of making something being made accessible in the STEM areas?
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah. Yeah, sure. So I can talk about a couple different examples. So in high school, like I said, I had some really great teachers in high school. So for my biotechnology class, we were all required to keep lab notebooks with all of our experimental data, etc. It was a pretty high level course. So we were really expected to be pretty meticulous in what we were writing down and keeping track of.
And we were required to turn in those notebooks at the end of each class and we couldn't take them home, no data manipulation, that kind of thing. So I was already doing so much of my work on the computer, so we had to kind of figure out how we were going to make that work for me. Obviously, my teacher didn't read Braille, so I couldn't create a physical Braille copy that she would be able to evaluate or grade.
So what we decided to do was just, I would just type on the computer and print right there in class and literally glue it into the notebooks because the notebooks were identical. All the students had the same one. So I did that. And then we also finally got to a point where we were making charts and tables, and then that became the next thing.
Well, what is Ashleigh going to do? So we got the things that I'm sure you guys are probably familiar with now, Wikki Stix and the adhesive foam and things like that. So I mean, by the end of the year, my notebook was definitely the puffiest (everyone laughs), but it was just nice that we found a way for me to participate equivalently to use the same notebook that everybody else was using and follow the same procedures that everybody else was doing.
Anil Lewis:
No, that's cool because you took that in a completely different direction than I thought. I thought we were going to describe basically some of the stuff we're doing in the STEM2U stuff, which we'll get to. But actually making it possible for the blind student to perform the work in a way that's comparable to their side of peers, not just like the experiments themselves, but the actual deliverable work product that I never really thought about that.
Melissa Riccobono:
I had an experience in college that was similar but different. We had to dissect a white rat, that was our big project in zoology. And I was just sort of ready. I had a lab assistant who helped with some of the ... She would draw diagrams for me and just different things. And we had a whole lab group. And I feel like, I don't remember if we each had a rat.
We might've each had a rat, but I was sort of like just kind of waiting, just sitting there. And my instructor came over and was like, "Okay, what are you waiting for?" And I said, "Well, what if I cut?" She's like, "You're not going to cut anything that you're not supposed to cut. You're going to dissect this rat and I'm going to help you." And I was like, "Oh, okay (Melissa and Ashleigh laugh)." And I mean, it's dissection.
So it was very cool in a lot of ways, but the coolest part was that she had more faith in me and my abilities than I had in myself. And I had great teachers in high school, but often during labs, that was sort of where their greatness and their creativity ran out because I would always touch the stuff that was dissected, but I was not the one ever that did the cutting. And so that white rat, that was the first time I really ... And I mean, she was right.
You basically, not to be gross, but you cut through the ribcage and you can ... I mean, it's very tactile. You can feel what you're doing and as long as you don't go beyond those ribs, you're not going to hurt anything because that's what the ribs do. They protect everything that's inside. So anyway, do you have a STEM story, Anil?
Anil Lewis:
Not as a blind person. So well, I guess as a blind person in dealing with some of our science programs, I guess that's a good segue to start talking about some of our science programs.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, let's talk about it. Exactly, go ahead.
Anil Lewis:
Yeah. I think it's really important that the Federation really was a leader in this space. You were talking about the early programs in STEM, President Riccobono, when he was the executive director in the Jernigan Institute and Dr. Mauer, they really saw the horizon of the career opportunities, et cetera, that were going to be available through STEM, but people weren't teaching our blind students how to do it. So we started doing the things that you described, the whole science academies, the dissecting and the rocket launching.
And I remember in the 2007 Youth Slam, that was where we had the week long experience bringing two hundred blind kids in from across the country to study science, technology, engineering, mathematics, I got to participate in dissecting that dog fish shark, and that was really amazing.
And I had performed dissections, of course, as a sightede student, but I never even realized, you're talking about how tactile like the organs are and everything, but the whole experience is tactile, using that scalpel to cut through the outer skin of that shark. I mean, you could feel, as you were doing that, the texture you felt when you broke through kind of the outer layer and it really was more non-visual than I had even anticipated. So yeah.
Melissa Riccobono:
And so what is STEM2U, Ashleigh? Are we asking kids to dissect and what ages are these kids? And tell us all about it.
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah. So NFB STEM2U, it's a one-day program. It's intended to be a one-day program that different affiliates across the country can opt to participate in. And the way it works is we bring in the kids and we do several different STEM activities. And the last few years we've been focusing on having themes for each STEM2U program.
So for example, last year we were doing the scientific method. So the students got to go through three different activities that sort of scaffolded on learning how the scientific method works so that by the time they got to the last activity, they were going through the steps of the scientific method more independently. So that was a lot of fun. This year is exciting because we're doing forensics, so students are going to get to solve a crime. There'll be some characters and a storyline, and they're going to be using science to solve a crime.
Anil Lewis:
Nice.
Yeah. The cool thing about the programs is, like I said, they're a one-day program, so it's a great opportunity for affiliates to bring in some youth and do an activity that's maybe not so robust like our BELL programs or things like that.
And that's one of the key features of the program. So I talked about how we brought kids in. One of the things that President Riccobono noticed is we needed to leverage our network of affiliates and not necessarily have to bring all the students to us that we could take the STEM to them. So the STEM2U, which is STEM, the number two, and the letter "U" really stands for taking STEM programs to those local communities so that more and more blind students can benefit from the work that we do.
Melissa Riccobono:
So how do the members of the affiliate know what to do? Because again, I love science, but what if I'm not really creative or what ... I don't know. Would I feel comfortable getting on the bandwagon and saying, yes, I can do this? Is there any training or anything that goes to the leaders of the affiliate program so that there's sort of a good starting point?
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah, absolutely. So first of all, you don't need to have any kind of science knowledge or science experience or anything like that. We bring our coordinators. So for those of you who don't know, each program will have a coordinator that's assigned by the affiliate. So we bring our coordinators and sometimes we bring the affiliate presidents if they would also like to participate, but we bring them to Baltimore to the Jernigan Institute and they do a three-day training over a weekend.
We just had ours a couple weeks ago and you get to run through all the activities, you get to learn the science behind those activities and also just get some really good information about running a youth program in general and the logistics of that and everything that's involved. And then after the training, you get to talk to me all the time (everyone laughs). So I try to really...
Melissa Riccobono:
What can be better (Ashleigh laughs)?
Ashleigh Moon:
For our coordinators and kind of talk them through those tricky areas or things that they might still not feel quite comfortable with. I like to coordinate with them and make sure that they're feeling comfortable. And then we also have some additional members of our support team that can also assist if we need that. So yeah, there's lots of support.
Anil Lewis:
I love when the trainers are going through and they're so excited and they're like, "Oh man, I wish we had this when I was a little kid.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yes!
Anil Lewis:
I wish we had this when I was taking science."
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah!
Anil Lewis:
Do you have a favorite experiment, Ashleigh or an activity, favorite activity?
Ashleigh Moon:
So I have tons of favorite activities (Ashleigh and Anil laugh), but what I will say is this year we're extracting DNA from strawberries and I really love this activity because I remember doing it probably in high school or middle school and I don't remember thinking about trying to touch the DNA or even thinking I could touch it. I just assumed it was a visual thing. You get this milky white stringy stuff and that's the DNA and you did the experiment.
Well, after a lot of trial and error, we discovered that if we used a lot more strawberries than the original experiment suggests, then you can actually get a sample large enough to feel. And so being able to do the experiment and extract the DNA and actually be able to tactilely feel it was a new thing for me this year. And I was really excited that we're going to be able to bring that to our students.
Anil Lewis:
Interesting.
Melissa Riccobono:
That is so cool. I was actually in, there was a retreat that I was in that was different from STEM2U, but when we were in the dining room on breaks or at lunch or at dinner, all we heard about was the DNA and how cool that was. And we have, it's you and other people on the team, like you said, and we do consult with people who are blind to our either teaching science or do different kinds of sciences as their profession. Is that right? So we kind of have that expertise also that we draw from?
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah, definitely. So we have other members of NFB that work in science fields or other education areas with STEM. And so we definitely pull from our resources to get information that we don't have. And we want to make the programs new and interesting each year. So definitely pulling from our network and resources is always important.
Anil Lewis:
Additionally, we actually seek out professionals who don't know anything about blindness or the experts in their STEM fields because we are the experts in blindness. As a matter of fact, in trying to plan the things for the first Youth Slam, President Riccobono went out to science programs and said, "What do you do with the side of kids that makes it fun and interesting?" And they were too busy trying to figure out how to make it accessible. And he says, "No, you tell us what it is. We'll make it accessible." And that's how the dissection of the dog's fish shark (Ashleigh laughs) was born. And you should get President Riccobono to tell the story because it is just hilarious.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah (laughs), it is a great story for sure, for sure. And so Ashleigh, well, let's ask one question and then I have a resource that I want to share about, and then we'll talk about how people can learn more information about STEM to you and anything that we have for wrap up. But age group for this program, what age group are we targeting?
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah, great question. So when we're working on the curriculum, we usually are thinking of junior high and maybe some high school students, but the great thing about this program is that it's really adaptable. So part of the information we give in the training is strategies on how to do the same activities or similar with younger students or make them a little bit more challenging for older students.
So really the program is open for K through 12, but we have each affiliate determine what age group they are comfortable working with and they want to open their program too. So it will vary from affiliate to affiliate, but anywhere from kindergarten through 12th grade.
Melissa Riccobono:
Wow, that's exciting that it's such a wide range. And I've seen it work really well in Maryland where the older kids help the younger or sometimes younger kids are better at something than the older ones. I mean, it really does work well. So Ashleigh, you hear a lot, I'm sure, about as Anil does and as I do, "Oh, I wish this had been the case when I was younger. I wish I knew how to do this." Is that sort of what happens when the program is taken back to the affiliate, do the coordinators work and find other blind people who can serve as volunteers or how does that work?
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah, great question. So I think one of the most important parts of our NFB youth programs is the blind mentors that are involved. I think that's really key to our kids getting the experience that they get. So our coordinators will go back to their affiliate and they're going to seek out volunteers that are interested in helping out with the program. Maybe they don't have a lot of experience with science, just like our coordinators, or maybe they have some experience in education or whatnot.
But they're going to seek out those volunteers and determine which volunteers are appropriate. And then they're going to do a training with those volunteers as well. So that's one of the great things is that if adults in your affiliate want to get involved, they can speak with their affiliate president or their STEM2U program coordinator and let them know that they're interested.
And even if they don't end up helping out the day of, there might be other things they can help out with, like preparing the program supplies or helping organize lunch for the kids. So there's lots of ways to get involved besides just teaching the activity. So definitely if they're interested, they should reach out.
Melissa Riccobono:
And we've often in Maryland had parent programming going on at the same time. So the kids are doing the STEM and then we as the Maryland parents of blind children will talk to the parents about ... I mean, we've done many different things, but often since it is a STEM program, we talk about how you can make science ... I mean, the whole world is really science. I mean, if you think about it, even the little toddler, when they're dropping things on the floor, they're doing science, right (Anil laughs)? They're the little scientists.
Ashleigh Moon:
Yup.
Melissa Riccobono:
And so making sure that parents know, especially if they have young kids, how to make science, how to do little experiments at home, even helping in the kitchen and helping them learn to mix things and touch things and that those kinds of skills help then with science along the way. And then for the older kids, of course, we've had students who are in high school who are talking to parents who have maybe a sixth or seventh grader about, "Yes, I took chemistry in high school. Here's what we did to make it accessible. Yes, I took physics. Yes, I took biology.
Here are all the things that I was able to do. Here are the things that didn't work as well because they were technology and they weren't accessible. This is what I did to get around that." And just having those older students talk to parents is always a great thing. Sometimes it's even college students. And then it always does sort of evolve into questions beyond (chuckles) STEM, but that's okay because that's what we're there for.
And that's really where the blind volunteers can help out as well. So there's definitely ways to be involved in the STEM program. But we have a resource here that I'd like to share. And I mean, you can get STEM related books from this organization, but you can really get any kind of book that you're looking for.
Bookshare is what I'm talking about. It's a great resource for students to access educational materials in multiple formats, but you can also read just for fun and you can get books in audio, Braille, and large text. And it's free for students. They have 1.4 million books. That is a lot of books.
Anil Lewis:
Oh, is that all? Is thst all?
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah, that's all (Anil laughs). That's all, Anil. Yeah, that's it. And it used to be that the books were scanned in by volunteers. I think there's still some of that done, but most of the books they have now are directly from the publisher. So they're very high quality files. They're going to be great to either listen to or read with a Braille display or on a computer.
There's a lot of different ways that you can access these books. And Bookshare now does have a special promo code that people can receive a discount. So students, if you have a blind student, either college or elementary up through high school, they can get Bookshare for free. That's great. But if you are an adult and you're saying, "I want access to Bookshare," you can actually now, if you are a member of the NFB and you're listening to this podcast, you can get, if you're a new subscriber to Bookshare, you can get a 30 percent discount on an annual membership.
Anil Lewis:
And the promo code there is NFBNEW30.
Melissa Riccobono:
Okay, perfect. If you are already a Bookshare member, you can receive a 20 percent discount when you're renewing. And what's the code for that, Anil?
Anil Lewis:
NFBRENEW20.
Melissa Riccobono:
Okay. Makes total sense.
Anil Lewis:
NFBNEW30, NFBRENEW20.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yeah. So that's the little promo about Bookshare and please take advantage of that. They, in Bookshare, want their books to be read. And so if you are an adult and you can't get a free membership, please consider taking advantage of these discounts.
Anil Lewis:
I'm a big Bookshare fan, especially now that ... Well, we have the Bookshare app. It's comfortable evolution. Back when I was in college, Bookshare was just a thought and we were all scanning our own books (Melissa laughs) and we donate our scanned copies to Bookshare and then they recirculated other students and you get them all jacked up with all the little scanned errors and stuff. But it was just nice that you didn't have to scan your 360 page textbook. Now the quality is so wonderful and you get the Bookshare app and you can pair your Braille display with the smartphone and you're getting access to the book. It has the appropriate pages in place. It's a great tool. It is a really great tool.
Melissa Riccobono:
It really is. So let's go back to STEM2U. I love this question, Ashleigh. Some parents think that their kids just aren't interested in STEM, so why would they want to do this program? What would you tell those parents? What are the things that they should think about that make our program different? And why might some kids think they don't like STEM, but when they actually get a chance to do it, maybe really do find that they enjoy it?
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah. I love this question too. I always tell parents and teachers, we are not trying to make scientists out of every student that comes to our programs (chuckles). That's not our goal. We just want them to be able to experience STEM in an accessible way so that they know that they can participate in STEM. When they go back to school, there are ways that they can participate equally with their classmates.
And like you sort of hinted at, they may actually like STEM a lot more than they think they do because they may have not had a great opportunity to participate yet. So even if your child isn't interested in STEM or maybe you think it's too hard for them or whatnot, I would definitely suggest still signing them up because the programs are, they're based around science, but they're fun. They're a lot of fun. We want our kids to have fun.
That's the goal. We are learning. We're introducing them to lots of different non-visual skills, which I love because those skills transfer to all areas of their life. When we're pouring liquids and measuring things, those are skills they can use in the kitchen.
When we are cutting things out to prepare our workstation, students need to use scissors in lots of different situations and they may not have done that yet. So these are really important skills that they can transfer to other areas of their life. And then like I mentioned earlier, our programs are great because we have a lot of blind mentors and role models and a lot of these students may not have that opportunity in other places.
So this is a great way for them and their parents to see that blind adults are out there and they are living successful lives and doing what they need to do. So I think there's lots of great reasons for kids to come even if they may not have an interest in STEM.
Anil Lewis:
Yeah, I love that. I love the transferable skills that you put in play. That's important. I love the blind role models because if you see it, you believe it. But the thing, I love the way you started that it's fun.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yes!
Anil Lewis:
Many blind students have turned off so many things because it's not fun. It's not fun because the individuals who are trying to teach them don't know how to make it truly accessible for them. So when they start trying to show them something, it gets overly complicated. And of course the student's not going to be interested in doing something that they feel is overly arduous and difficult or complex. So I love that you don't want to underplay how the fun impacts a child's interest and an adult's interest. Are there other ways that we help parents understand that blind students can do STEM?
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah. So a lot of people don't actually know or realize that NFB has an NFB EQ for parents toolkit on their website. And we designed this toolkit to help parents teach their kids skills that will apply to STEM subjects throughout their childhood. So it's broken down into different age groups and there's activities in different areas that will help kids develop non-visual skills, introduce them to assistive technology, help them learn how to do a little bit of creative DIY accessibility and a lot of other fun activities that just really help students get introduced to those concepts at younger ages and help them build those skills before they get into the classroom.
Anil Lewis:
That's very nice.
Melissa Riccobono:
I had no idea. That's so exciting.
Anil Lewis:
And it's so important.
Melissa Riccobono:
Oh, so important. What if classroom teachers are interested in helping students do science, but have questions? Could they contact you? Could they contact the Jernigan Institute? Do we have resources for teachers? Because they're the other group that I think obviously is right on the front lines.
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah. So a lot of the same activities that are in the parent toolkit would also be perfectly fine for teachers to do with students. And then in addition to that, we also have NFB EQ for teachers, which is a fully accessible curriculum that teachers can access to do with their blind student. And it's focused on the STEM EQ program that we had in person several years ago where students were able to build a model house.
And so that's what that curriculum follows. However, on that same toolkit, there are lots of other resources that talk about where to find assistive technology, how to use non-visual skills, what kind of approach to take when talking about STEM subjects with blind students and things like that. So there's lots of great resources for teachers on that website as well.
Anil Lewis:
Very nice.
Melissa Riccobono:
Do you have any particular success stories that you want to share about a student or a volunteer or anything that you've witnessed that just was kind of one of those aha moments or one of those really heartwarming moments?
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah. So Anil was talking a little while ago about the coordinators when we get them in the training and they're just like, "Oh, I wish I had this and this is also great." And so last year when we did the scientific method, one of our activities involved using hot glue guns.
Anil Lewis:
(Laughs) Look out.
Ashleigh Moon:
And I would say probably 90 percent of the coordinators that showed up had never touched a hot glue gun. It was so much fun for me to really work with them and show them, this is not as scary as you think it is or it sounds. It's really pretty straightforward. So we were there with the glue guns and teaching coordinators how to use a popsicle stick as a mini cane to find your glue (Anil laughs).
And oh, you got some glue on your skin, you can just dip it in a cup of water and you're fine. It's not a big deal. So to be able to see all of the adults just really have that experience that they had never had before was really fun for me. And there's lots of little moments like that, but that one really stands out. And then also for students, we had a student here in Arizona at last year's program. One of our activities we used DC Motors. They got to build their own motor and connect wires and these batteries.
And I mean, he just lit up. He was so excited and engaged. And when the program was done for the day, we had a few leftover supplies and I asked him if he wanted to take them home and he did. And he came back to a different program and I was talking to him and he said that him and his dad built a model car with the remaining motors. So he just took that home, had a great time with it and kept going. So that was really exciting for me.
Melissa Riccobono:
Those are the stories. I love that. Reminds me a little bit of a boy who we had a blind engineer volunteer and it actually wasn't STEM2U. It was a different program, but it's the same kind of concept. And he was a guy that worked at the Library of Congress and actually helped design the talking book players and different things. And I can't remember this kiddo's dad or mom, I can't remember which one, picked him up at the end of the day and he said, "I got to meet Mr. Lloyd today (Anil and Ashleigh chuckle)." And the mom or dad said, "Oh, right, that's right. He's the engineer.
That's really cool." And he said, "And you want to be an engineer?" And he said, "No, he's not just an engineer. He's a blind engineer (Ashleigh laughs)." And I mean, that was really the first time the parent said that this kiddo who blindness was fairly new to him, that he believed again in his heart that he really could be an engineer because not only did he meet another engineer, it was actually a blind engineer just like him.
And I love when connections like that are made. It's all important. Anil, did I miss anything? Ashleigh did I miss anything? Oh, yes, I did. How would people find out more information and whether STEM2U is available where they live or near where they live?
Ashleigh Moon:
Yeah! So if you are interested in finding out more about STEM2U, you can just go to nfb.org/STEM2U, and that's S-T-E-M, the number two and the letter "U." And on that page, you'll find all the information about the current program. You'll be able to find a list of participating affiliates. And as soon as those affiliates registration links are available, you will also be able to go to the registration pages for those affiliates.
Melissa Riccobono:
Well, I think this was a wonderful episode. Thank you, Ashleigh so much for working with the youth. And I love it that we're not trying to make scientists out of every kid, but we do want every kid to realize that they can discover and that they can learn these skills and that there are non-visual ways to do almost anything that you really want to do. And even though we're not making scientists out of everyone, there may be and probably are some future scientists in each little cohort of STEM2U which is relally cool.
Anil Lewis:
There absolutely are. But we want to make sure that that next blind student who could be the scientist to develop that next innovation is not discouraged because someone doesn't want to take the time to make sure that their learning is accessible. But even if after we do what we do and give them the exposure to these opportunities, they still come back and say, "You know what? I don't want to be a scientist, technologist, engineer, or mathematician."
Then I still think that's a win for us because for generations, too many blind kids have been denied this opportunity and they've made the decision not to pursue these careers, not because they weren't interested, but because society told them that they couldn't. So we're letting them get a taste of it so they can make their own informed decision. And who knows? The world's wide open now.
We got blind people who can change the world just as effectively as any sighted people. So keep that in mind as you're looking at pursuing STEM education, and hopefully you can help us in one way or the other, bring more students to our STEM2U programs, find more blind adults who are willing to serve as role models, finding more STEM professionals who are willing to help us devise new learning opportunities for blind students. And while you do that, we'll be thinking of the next episode. And in the meantime, remember, you can live the life you want.
Melissa Riccobono:
Blindness is not what holds you back.
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