Announcer: Welcome to the Nation's Blind Podcast presented by the National Federation of the Blind, the transformative membership and advocacy organization of Blind Americans. Live the life you want.
Melissa Riccobono: Hello, and welcome to the Nation's Blind Podcast. I'm Melissa Riccobono, and I am here with -
Anil Lewis: Anil Lewis, and I'm feeling quite dignified, Melissa. How about you?
Melissa Riccobono: I am feeling quite dignified though it has been a very, very busy day for me. I don't know about you.
Anil Lewis: This is my meeting Mondays. I have meetings on Mondays after meetings on Mondays.
Melissa Riccobono: Wow. Wow. Well, anyway -
Anil Lewis: But this is my favorite meeting, meeting to record the podcast.
Melissa Riccobono: Oh my goodness. Absolutely it is, and it feels like it's been a little while since we've been together. So how have you been? You've been doing well?
Anil Lewis: Been quite well, been quite busy. Lot of traveling. Yeah.
Melissa Riccobono: Traveling. Okay. Wow. Where have you been going?
Anil Lewis: Oh, I've been working on that work-life balance, so all of the work I do for the Federation, for those of you who follow me on Facebook, it seems like I never live at home, but I also took some time personally to visit South Africa, so Cape Town and Johannesburg. Wonderful experiences.
Melissa Riccobono: Oh my goodness, that is amazing. Well, I did some traveling too. I went to Oregon. Nowhere near as far as South Africa, but I got to visit my aunt who is 80 years old, and I got to do her oral history, which was amazing because she's had quite the life, and my 87-year-old aunt was there too, and my cousin, who was my college roommate, and my sister and my mom. And my aunt, who's 87, she broke her hip about 10 weeks before we left on the trip, and she was amazing. She was walking, she was barely using her walker. She walked up the stairs of this lighthouse, so she could look out the top. I mean, we all said, "We want to be like Aunt Donna if we get to be 87."
Anil Lewis: That's wonderful.
Melissa Riccobono: She was certainly bringing the dignity and growing old with dignity for sure.
Anil Lewis: And that definitely beats South Africa. There's nothing that tops spending that type of quality time with family, so very nice.
Melissa Riccobono: I think it's apples and oranges, right? I think South Africa is pretty gosh darn amazing. I think anytime that you get chance -
Anil Lewis: It was amazing.
Melissa Riccobono: To go out of our own country, our own comfort zones, and really immerse ourselves in other cultures and see other parts of the world, I think it is just a fantastic experience.
Anil Lewis: Agreed.
Melissa Riccobono: Yeah, but we keep mentioning dignity. Why is that Anil, why would we?
Anil Lewis: We should make that the theme. Maybe we should make that the theme of this podcast.
Melissa Riccobono: Oh, is that what it is?
Anil Lewis: Let's do that. Let's just make that our theme.
Melissa Riccobono: Okay, well, how about that? So I have a little note here actually.
Anil Lewis: What is dignity?
Melissa Riccobono: It actually says what is dignity, right? According to Oxford Languages, dignity is the state of being worthy of honor or respect. And there are some synonyms here. Do you want to hear a synonym? Not a cinnamon, but you want to hear a synonym?
Anil Lewis: Sure.
Melissa Riccobono: Okay. A few synonyms of dignity are integrity, worthiness, respectability, self-esteem, self-worth, and self-respect.
Anil Lewis: Man, that sounds a lot like Federation philosophy, all that.
Melissa Riccobono: It really does. It really does. And I mean it kind of sounds familiar too. Maybe there was like a banquet speech kind of in the past year or so?
Anil Lewis: Yes. Oh, yes.
Melissa Riccobono: That touched on this type of topic?
Anil Lewis: Absolutely. And such a timely topic for a banquet speech as well.
Melissa Riccobono: Yes. No, absolutely. But we do have some thoughts about what dignity is. We ask those who follow the National Federation of the Blind on Facebook. We asked them to define dignity. Do you want to hear a little bit about what they said?
Anil Lewis: I'd love to hear what they said. I just can't wait to hear what comes out of the mouths of these members.
Melissa Riccobono: Okay. I am really sorry. I am probably going to butcher this person's name, Tasabih, maybe? T-A-S-A-B-I-H from Illinois, I can say Illinois, said, "Dignity means recognizing the worth and respect every person deserves regardless of their abilities or circumstances. For someone who is blind, it can be understood as being treated with fairness and respect, acknowledging their independence, choices, and humanity without pity or unnecessary assumptions about their capabilities."
Anil Lewis: Nice. I love the recognizing humanity. I love that.
Melissa Riccobono: Yeah, absolutely. Dr. Marley from Nebraska said, "Dignity is the security that comes when someone recognizes your humanity despite your inherent differences."
Anil Lewis: Nice. Humanity again. I love that.
Melissa Riccobono: Yeah. Maurice, now I think he was from Maryland when this was written, but now he's in Hawaii. I know this man. I know Maurice. He said, "Dignity is comprised of several qualities that combine to command respect. They include confidence, integrity, honesty, and wisdom derived from lived experience. An individual who exudes dignity speaks his or her informed truth and is listened to, not necessarily because one agrees, likes, or receives easily, but because said truth-sayer has done the homework and can confidently articulate it with sensitivity and compassion, knowing that everyone is on their own life's journey, but will eventually discover a shared destiny."
I think I have to take that one apart. That's, I think, our college vote for the day.
Anil Lewis: That's what happens when you don't use the word humanity. See, it was all that was really. I do like the his or her informed truth, and I think that that's important too in the discussion that we're going to have, but we should probably not just have it between you and I because we're always so much in sync. Maybe we should invite a couple more people to engage in this conversation with us. What do you think?
Melissa Riccobono: Oh, we love people. We have? I love people.
Anil Lewis: Let's bring some people in.
Melissa Riccobono: Okay, let's bring some people. I think we have two people, right?
Anil Lewis: Yes, I do believe we have two people, but we'll take a quick minute for a commercial break.
(Ad) Speaker 4: Hi, my name's Danielle McCann, and I'm the membership building coordinator at the National Federation of the Blind.
First, I'd like to share an ingredient with you for living the life that you want. That ingredient is dignity. It is respectable to be blind.
(Ad) Speaker 5: Build the recipe to live the life you want and double your dollars. Give online at nfb.org/donate, mail a check to National Federation of the Blind, 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, Maryland 21230. Contribute by phone by calling (410) 659-9314, extension 2430. Thank you for your support. National Federation of the Blind. Live the life you want.
Anil Lewis: ... proud members. I'm saying speaking for them that they're proud members of the National Federation of the Blind board of directors, two of our newest members. We have Ben Dallin and Jamie Richey.
Ben Dallin: Hello. Good to be here and see you both.
Anil Lewis: Look at me, I'm breaking the gentleman's rule. I introduced the man before the woman.
Melissa Riccobono: That's okay. Ben Dallin from -
Anil Lewis: I'm going to lose my southern gentleman card.
Melissa Riccobono: Ben Dallin from Wisconsin, my old home state. How is Wisconsin, Ben?
Ben Dallin: Wisconsin is good from what I can tell. I've also been doing a lot of traveling. Just got back from Minnesota yesterday and been down in Illinois, but from what I can tell, Wisconsin is doing well, and yeah, everybody's hanging in there and getting ready for a big day tomorrow.
Anil Lewis: Nice.
Melissa Riccobono: And Jamie, how about you? How's Nebraska?
Jamie Richey: It's going great. It's starting to cool down, starting to feel more like Fall for sure. I'm just hoping it doesn't change too quickly into the season that we're not so fond of, which is winter.
Melissa Riccobono: I understand that for sure. I have said often that it's very funny how quickly you can get used to warmer and sunnier weather and less snow, and I've been here in Maryland for over 20 years, and I think back to my time in Wisconsin, and I just think, "Oh my gosh, it's way too dark and it's way too cold in the winter. I'm very happy to be where I am."
Jamie Richey: Yep.
Ben Dallin: Yep. That tracks. But so far it's been pretty warm.
Anil Lewis: Excellent. Melissa and I just decided to make dignity the theme of this podcast. I hope you guys are comfortable with that.
Jamie Richey: Perfect.
Melissa Riccobono: Oh, good. Okay, fantastic. Wow, you guys just roll. That's why you're board members. You just roll with it. I love it. Thank you for your flexibility.
Anil Lewis: I was just wondering, just to kick it off, can you both share some of your individual strategies that you use to protect and maintain your dignity?
Melissa Riccobono: I think we should start with Jamie, since you didn't start with her, introducing her, Anil. How about we do that?
Anil Lewis: Very good. Very good. Great idea.
Jamie Richey: Yeah. This time I was actually hoping you'd start with Ben. I just figured you were going, I just figured you were going in alphabetical order there.
Anil Lewis: Exactly. That's exactly what I was doing. Thank you. Yes.
Ben Dallin: I'll let you have it.
Jamie Richey: Oh, that's a good question there, Anil. Dignity is definitely something that we should all have for ourselves and for each other. In a lot of situations with our blindness, sometimes it can be hard to show that dignity and self-respect, but we got to keep fighting each and every day to ensure that ourselves as well as the next generation can be surrounded by dignity, self-respect, and to stand tall each, every day.
Anil Lewis: Absolutely. How about you, Ben?
Ben Dallin: Yeah, I think it's a really interesting question, and even now as being on the Board and just really getting out there and getting to do some more traveling and interacting, that's given me some opportunities to, I think, even if not always using those words or thinking about it in that context, to get a little more experience with this. I think it's such a personal journey, and it's really striking a balance, I think, especially when dealing with people who may or may not be familiar with those of us who are blind, and people who have not encountered blind people before. And I think for me it involves, and I'm not always great at this, but it involves kind of deciding if there's an interaction that I'm not too excited about, or I have to kind of ask myself if that is happening out of just ignorance, if it's something that is just born out of not knowing, or if there's something a little bit more nefarious or if taking away my dignity is maybe not intentional, but still the result, then that needs to be addressed maybe differently.
Anil Lewis: You put a lot in that I thought was really interesting, and some of it is around our perspective. I'm going to put Melissa on blast because she shared a story with me once about how she was in a store, and she was getting some products, and the guy was somewhat overly helpful trying to get her find her products, and then he got up to the counter and offered to pay for her items, and she was feeling he was doing it because he was being custodialistic and that kind of thing, had low expectations, etc. But I said, "But what if he was really just trying to pick you up? What if he was trying to make the moves on you?" So it is interesting.
Melissa Riccobono: And that was totally not even slightly in my thought process. I did not think, I don't know, I never would've considered.
Anil Lewis: But it's a testimony that we get our dignity challenged so much all the time that we're almost pre-programmed, not almost, we're pre-programmed to think of something that is more on front to our dignity perception. Can either of you share an example of how you tried to complete a task, it's very frustrating. Someone underestimated you, assumed that you couldn't do it, and how you were able to come out of that?
Jamie Richey: Well, Anil, I think one of the things, rather than a task, is one of the things that we face, it seems like occasionally as blind people, is people picking up the tab for us when we're at a restaurant. And so one time when my son and I, he was probably about eight at the time, we were eating at a restaurant, and somebody had paid for our meal, and right away you jumped to that conclusion that, "Oh, it's because I was blind. They felt sorry for me or whatever." But we also knew that some of Isaac's classmates were in the restaurant, so maybe it was just one of his classmates' moms being nice to another mom. I don't know. So what we did in turn then is we paid for the next table's meal.
Anil Lewis: Oh, nice.
Jamie Richey: Just to pay it forward. But you are so right that sometimes we automatically jump to those conclusions like, "Oh, it's because I'm blind. You think I can't do this? You think I can't pay for my own meal?" But sometimes it is people just being nice or maybe hitting on you at the grocery store.
Melissa Riccobono: It was actually in an airport.
Jamie Richey: Oh, in an airport.
Ben Dallin: Okay.
Anil Lewis: Yeah, that's a great pickup place. Back in my bachelor days, that's where I used to, nevermind. Ben, save me, Ben.
Ben Dallin: Okay. I'll try to. No guarantees though. But yeah, no, I think that's a great example. I think just looking at some of my recent travels, I'd like to maybe compare and contrast two different scenarios, actually, one's having to do with travel, and one has nothing to do with it, but the first one is just taking the Greyhound bus the last couple times in the last couple of weeks. I've had pleasant interactions for the most part, help was offered, more help than I needed. I was asked, "Oh, well, do you need help getting on the bus? Do we need to lower the stairs so it's a ramp?" I just said, "oh no, I got no problem. I do this all the time." And that was totally respected, and I got on, and a comment was made, "Oh, well, the last blind person needed a lot more help than you did." Which there's some to unpack there, but I was still respected. My preferences, my autonomy, and my choice was respected.
For my work, we're required to take an online course every year about, ironically enough, diversity and building bridges and inclusion. And last year I pointed out to them that, ironically enough that some of the course content was inaccessible. I reported it, received assurances that it would be addressed. And yes, it was especially inappropriate for that course to not be accessible. And so this year I go to take the course again, and it was still inaccessible. And that was, in some ways, people, it's just an online course. It was kind of a big deal to me. I felt in that way that my dignity was under assault. I had made it clear what the issue was. It should have been a very easy fix, and it wasn't dealt with. And that course content, especially the fact that that wasn't taken under consideration, that that's still an ongoing problem. That really bothers me, and I feel that is an attack on dignity.
Anil Lewis: Wow. And it's frustrating. Again, you're saying it's a simple fix that it wasn't carried over and institutionalized. That does get frustrating. We're going to talk how to deal with some of that a little bit later.
Ben Dallin: Sure.
Anil Lewis: Mine is a little bit awkward, but one of the things you brought up that was very interesting in the first scenario is they were saying that the other person needed a lot more assistance. I also found myself conflicted and trying to balance being respected in the way that I want to without making the way that I, because I know they're going to interpret it, they do it for me. This is the way they think all blind people are going to want to be interacted with, and I think it goes back to what Maurice was saying, we need to base that on our own lived experience, so it's authentic to us, but that doesn't define it for everyone else, so that's that delicate balance too.
Melissa Riccobono: Right. And it might change per day. I have chronic fatigue along with blindness, and so sometimes if I'm very, very fatigued, I need more help traveling through an airport, maybe I need different transportation help because usually I could walk somewhere. But you know what? When I'm really fatigued, the first things that sort of go for me are that ability to feel like I can travel really comfortably and react to the changing things that the environment gives me. And when I don't have that, that means that I might ask for more help in those situations, and in other situations I might not need or want that help, or it depends on how much time I have. I mean, it can depend on a zillion little things, and I think that it's not, dignity is not, a loss of dignity is not suffered if you decide to take help. I think that can be very dignified. Again, it's speaking your truth, but also if you refuse that help, you should still be able to have your dignity, and people should respect you and allow you to have that dignity.
Anil Lewis: Absolutely.
Melissa Riccobono: Ben and Jamie, I know you know this well, I guess Anil, you know this too. The Midwest is always very nice. I think the South is nice too. And so my poor mother, pretty much anytime we have this conversation, if I say, "Oh my gosh, there was somebody, and they would not leave me alone. I just wanted to, I don't know, do X, Y, Z, cross the street, whatever. And they kept asking me if I needed help, and they kept asking me all these questions, and I just wanted to get from point A to point B." And she always will say, "Oh, they're just being nice. I hope you were nice. You were nice, weren't you? Weren't you nice?"
Even if I am super nice, sometimes she has accused me of being very rude. "Oh, they just wanted to help you." And I have to explain to her a lot, "Mom, just because I say, no, thank you, how much more polite can you get than no thank you?" I'm not saying, "No, go away. You're stupid." I'm saying, "No, thank you. I've got this."
Anil Lewis: No, thank you, stupid. Yeah, I get it.
Melissa Riccobono: But that's really sad and that's really hard, and I think it's especially hard when it's your own family members who sometimes don't seem to understand your own dignity and that it matters, that being able to walk places on my own or do things on my own or get the help in the way that I want or need the help and not the way somebody else thinks I want or need the help, how that really impacts my dignity.
Anil Lewis: So mutual respect and politeness, sometimes humor really are the ways that we deal with it. I know that once I was exiting the plane in an unfamiliar airport, and I used to get an escort to take me to the ride share from the gate, and they're very polite, and they say, "Well, do you need to stop by the men's room?" So at this time, I need to stop by the men's room. There was a young lady that was my escort, and she got to the door, and she says, "Are you going to need any help?" So that's really kind of offensive because I'm a 50-year-old man that I've been to the, anyway, so I could have dealt with it in many ways. I just looked at her and I smiled. I said, "I don't know, are your hands warm?" So I decided, hopefully that was just taken in the humor, that it was meant, she laughed, and it kind of cut the tense moment around. I was definitely curious as to what would've happened if I would've said, "Yes." It's really interesting there.
But what happens when disrespect and politeness and even humor doesn't work? What do you do when they don't get it?
Jamie Richey: Sometimes you just have to let them, I guess, help in a way. I mean, obviously not follow you into the bathroom, but if it's something like crossing the street, "Okay, you can cross the street with me." Ronza actually had an article in the Braille Monitor not too long ago about how this lady insisted she was trying to cross the street, so Ronza let her cross the street with her, and then the lady asked where she was going, and Ronza pointed to the other street. So they crossed that street and turns out they make this big old square because Ronza never actually wanted to cross the street to begin with, but sometimes you just go with the flow, and if they really want to cross the street with you, cross with them and then let them go on their way instead of trying to fight it. That's the way I look at things a lot of times. Because I can always cross back the street if I really needed to, and then I can show her that I can cross the street by myself.
Ben Dallin: Yeah, that makes sense. I think it really, it's hard because it depends on what the situation is. That's absolutely, I can definitely relate to that solution. I think sometimes you have to walk away depending on the situation. If that's not the time, if you've tried to educate in a way or explain what you need and what you don't need, it that's not being respected, then if you can, which you can't always, but try to extricate yourself from the situation or yeah, I don't know. Sometimes you can explain more, talk about maybe even being uncomfortable with the situation, but I think it really just depends on what specifically you're encountering. But yeah, it's true that unfortunately it can be so easy, but getting angry and belligerent, as easy as it is to do, it seems to seldom yield good results.
Anil Lewis: Yeah, sometimes it is very exhausting. Yeah, go ahead.
Jamie Richey: Absolutely. Oh, I was just going to say, and I'd say there definitely is a time and place for education. Of course, we always want to educate, educate, educate, and we do that every day that we step out of our house. We're educating the public. But there might be that time where you step on a city bus, and somebody's wanting to help you to your seat, and you can't take that time to educate them because the bus needs to get moving and things like that. So there really is that time where you can stop and maybe educate and say, "Oh, yeah, I got it. This is how I do it." But then other times where you just can't take that time to educate and hope that the next time that it comes around that you would have more time to do that educating.
Anil Lewis: Absolutely. And you have to give yourself grace around that too because sometimes I beat myself up on it like, "Oh, that was a missed learning opportunity." Or when I'm really just so exhausted, "I just can't tolerate going through this one more time. I'm sorry. You just have to remain ignorant today." Yeah. We have to give ourselves grace that we can't be educators 24/7.
Jamie Richey: Right.
Melissa Riccobono: For me, it's really a lot based on too, am I going to have more interactions with this person? If I'm going to have more interactions with a person, I try harder to educate, and I try harder to come to some type of mutual understanding. Of course, I don't always get it right. And certainly, especially with the medical establishment, I don't know. That's the one that I feel like I lose my dignity more than any other place. "Do you need help getting undressed? Do you need help getting dressed? Can I help you back to the?" I mean, just a zillion things. And sometimes I do a much better job, and maybe it's even as simple as, "Here, can I show you something? Can I take your arm?" And that was a really hard one for me for a long time, even though I know it's much easier if I take their arm if I want an arm, or if they're going to insist on guiding me, but there's times that I've just let them kind of grab and steer and felt really awkward, but just not really felt like I could speak up.
And so I'm getting much better about speaking up and just trying, especially in that medical office, to just imbue short little lessons and hope that at some point it's going to start sinking in.
Jamie Richey: Yep, exactly. And you talked earlier, Melissa, about that Midwest be nice mentality, and I got to give Anil a little bit of credit here and tell him a story about a guy from Atlanta. This was a case where he really did, he gave me dignity. We were in the DC airport, and I did a mobile Starbucks order. And so we are at the gate, I did a mobile Starbucks order. So I go up to Starbucks, and I'm trying to figure out where the mobile pickup line is because there's three different lines. One to pick up yourself, one to order, one for the mobile order. And so I was standing there listening, and this guy walks up to me and he's like, "Do you need some assistance, ma'am?" And I told him what I was doing, and he's like, "Well, would it be okay if I assisted you and told you where it was?"
I said, "Oh, absolutely." And so we walk over there, I grabbed myself and he goes, "Well, I'm actually sitting right behind you and your husband. Would you mind if I walked with you?" And so in that case, I mean, we do run into people in the airports and other places where they really do, they get it. They assist without over assisting, and so I got to give credit to those people too. Not everybody wants to pull you across the street. Some people actually just say, "Hey, do you need assistance?" And you can say yes or no. So I do want to give a little credit there to the southern hospitality. He was from Atlanta, him and his family, so he was very nice.
Anil Lewis: Well, great, great. I love the way that you sounded like you regrettably had to give me that accolade, but I'll still receive it. I'm just going to have to give Anil his credit here. But see, with the Southern, we're polite. I don't necessarily say we're nice. We're the only place that you can go and someone can say, "God bless your heart." And it's insult, little sneaky.
So in this everyday interaction, I don't know whether you guys feel, well, I'm sure you do because that's why you're part of it. I think part of what helps us deal with this day-to-day is to know that there are thousands of other blind people that are also living their lives and educating the general public about what we need as well. So any thoughts on how the National Federation of the Blind, the role that the organization itself plays in trying to make sure we maintain our dignity?
Ben Dallin: Yeah, I do. I think that's really important. So growing up, well, until I got out of high school, I wasn't really part of a community of blind people, or I had met some, a few on and off through the years, but by and large, I was the only blind person in my communities that I encountered. And I think especially as the challenges grew from leaving home and starting adulthood and everything required with it, it quickly became apparent how important it is to have that community for a couple reasons. Sometimes just for support to talk about the difficult interaction, the bad day, the hard situation. Sometimes just to know that other people have had that. I mean, I appreciate that people have been, even in our discussion today, people have been vulnerable and talked about different scenarios and situations, and it's hard to always be strong.
And sometimes we, I've done it, I've taken assistance or gone through a situation where when it's over, I say, "Oh, I should have handled that one differently." And giving myself the grace. And really just being able to share those things with like-minded individuals or even people with different experiences, but who still share that characteristic of blindness in common is so important for support.
And then of course, brainstorming solutions, coming up with new ideas. I mean, when you're in the right frame of mind to do that, and you're ready to start talking about, "Okay, well what can I do next time if this happens again?" And just hearing what other people are doing, it's just invaluable.
Anil Lewis: Agreed. How about you, Jamie?
Jamie Richey: I definitely echo everything Ben said, but also I want to give a lot of credit to the people that have come before us. We, over the last 84 years, have had a lot of people really demonstrate dignity in our organization, and I think that helps all of us as the generations go by, and we have to continue to do that for the next generations too. But I'm just really thankful for everyone that's come before, and I can point to those different instances where maybe Dr. Jernigan and Dr. Maurer have done different things that have really shown the public and shown me personally what dignity is and how it can be achieved.
Anil Lewis: Agreed. Can you imagine what it would be like for us today if they hadn't?
Jamie Richey: Oh, geez. Yeah.
Anil Lewis: We'd still be sitting on planes, on blankets, and all kinds of, yeah, yeah.
Melissa Riccobono: Yeah. Well, and even the mistakes they made, I mean, I think about Dr. Jernigan being vulnerable and talking about not throwing the nickel. Don't throw the nickel, Dr. Jernigan talks about he was going to get on the bus, and the fare for the bus was a nickel. And an older gentleman walked up to him and gave him a nickel to get on the bus, and he said, "No, thank you." And I think the man just kind of insisted, "No, no, no, you need to have this." And instead of doing what Jamie did, which was I think very appropriate as far as paying forward, he decided that he wanted to show that man that he didn't need his nickel, and he threw that nickel away. I mean, okay, if the bus cost a nickel, I'm sure there were lots of other things that cost a nickel. A nickel back in those days, I'm not saying it was a huge amount of money.
Anil Lewis: The equivalent would be $2.50 today.
Melissa Riccobono: Right, probably. Right, exactly. And I mean, what did that man, I think part of what he goes into then was what was he trying to prove? He was trying to prove that he was this great person that didn't need any help, that independent blind guy. And what message did that other guy take from it was probably, "Oh my gosh, what a mean yes, nasty person that just threw this nickel." And I mean, I guess I hate to say the line because it sounds so trite, but I'm sure the guy was probably thinking, "Hey, buddy, I was just trying to be nice. I was just really trying to be."
Now again, that gets really awkward, really, really awkward and can get really, really awkward really fast. But what Dr. Jernigan finally did come to the conclusion of was, "You know what? That was wrong. I really should not have handled it that way." He felt the person was taking away his dignity, and that's why he had such a strong reaction. But that as he reflects, the person was just really trying to do something kind. And again, that's where it all gets, that's where I think being human is so hard sometimes because it's all that balancing act and how we act and react toward one another sometimes has very little to do with actually what happens, but it has to do with the history and what we bring to each interaction and sort of what we think they're thinking.
Anil Lewis: And I think it's those vulnerable disclosures, like you said, about the mistakes that really help us all grow. And I think that that's really important. And I think that that's part of the benefit, of course, of the National Federation of the Blind, because we not only get the strategies that Ben was describing of success, but we also get those stories of how people did something and regret the way they did it. And we can learn from that without making the same mistakes. But this is why I think that the banquet speech this year was so powerful. I mean, President Riccobono packed in so much into the banquet speech, but it was all centered around this whole concept of dignity. He really stressed in a big way, the Federation and the role we play in making sure that blind people can still protect and maintain their dignity. Why don't we listen to a clip?
President Riccobono: For the record, dignity for the blind is inherent regardless of the degree of an individual's blindness. However, if we are going to uphold our inherent dignity, we need to offer respect and grace to those who are still on the journey of understanding. We must not forget that many of us came from that same place of misunderstanding, and thankfully, we were respected and provided with the grace to discover the value of our own dignity. The respect with which we handle these situations can significantly contribute to the shared value of our dignity.
Each of us can make a difference by pushing back on the harmful barriers and misconceptions we face. However, all of us are not in a position to push back all of the time. By combining our efforts into a movement, we have the best chance of reaching equality of dignity in society.
When you encounter moments where your dignity is respected, pause to acknowledge the progress. When you are confronted with low expectations, remember that the choices are yours, and your dignity cannot be taken. When you push back on those misconceptions and create understanding, feel proud of defending our dignity. And when you feel like you cannot push anymore, when you are too tired of defending your rightful dignity, remember that you are not alone. All of the other dignitaries have your back.
In wearing our dignity with pride, we honor the dignity of others. We continue to recognize that we do not journey alone. We do not face the challenges by ourselves, and we do not have to be perfect in order for our dignity to be maintained. Our dignity comes from within, and it is valued, strengthened, and honored through the collective actions of individuals focused into a movement we share.
But equality in society is not yet ours. We deserve a world where every heart and mind know our understanding of dignity for the blind. The only way we can get to that future is together, through the courage, determination, and creativity of a movement we share. This is the commitment to defend our dignity. This is the commitment we make to each other. This is the love, hope, and determination felt in our movement. This is the bond of faith that fuels our hope for our tomorrows. Let us go together to find those blind people who have not yet discovered the power of their dignity. Let us show that we belong in the world and that we make it better. Let us never again allow our dignity to be divided. Let us go build the National Federation of the Blind.
Melissa Riccobono: Getting chills again, just like I did a couple months ago.
Anil Lewis: Immediately after I texted President Riccobono, I said, "Oh, so you decided to go with a sermon this year?" And man, it really was so touching. I sat there for a moment because normally I just rush up to the stage. I just sat there for a moment just feeling it. It was really good. And I've heard so many people talk about the banquet speech. I mean, people always talk about, but so many more this year than usual. So what are your thoughts, Jamie? Ben?
Jamie Richey: I think it was very appropriate given the timing of things going on in the world today, especially with the Uber and Lyft rally that happened just a couple months after that speech was given, and the dignity that they're trying to take away from us as riders of Lyft and Uber. And then other things that had happened at the convention and then afterwards, it was just so timely. It was almost like he planned it.
Anil Lewis: I think he did plan it, but the timing was perfect. Yes.
Jamie Richey: Yes.
Ben Dallin: Yeah, I totally agree. And there's just so much, like was said, there's just so much that he packed in there and so many relevant and yes, timely ideas that I really appreciated. I just loved how he talks about how our dignity can't be taken away from us. That's something that's inherent within us, but that it's also a two-way street, right? As we demand that our dignity be respected, we need to extend that to others. I think that's so key in a world that has too much division in so many different ways, that we honor the dignity of others, and especially when they might make a choice that is different from us, or even if they respond differently from how we may have, I think that's important.
Anil Lewis: Yeah, he made room for all of us, and I love the way he tackled when you get exhausted, just rest assured that the other dignitaries, and they're out there to have your back. So yeah.
Melissa Riccobono: I agree.
Anil Lewis: What's your unbiased opinion there, Melissa? Of your husband's presentation?
Melissa Riccobono: Of my husband's presentation? Well, I won't go into all of that. You know what I'm thinking, but I was really struck this time around, and that's why I think it's amazing to re-listen to different speeches, even if you've heard them once, twice, three or four times. Because I think everything else, you get a little bit of something else from the speech when you listen to it more than one time.
But I was really struck with make sure that you respect people and give them the dignity to teach them that maybe there's something different and don't give up on them. Give them that dignity. And then it also really hit home to me that I think truly one of the reasons why people are so worried about becoming blind or getting older or getting disabled in any kind of way is the fear that they will somehow lose their dignity. That they will be helpless, that they will be pitied, that they will be the object of people needing to do so many things for them that they used to be able to do for themselves.
And I mean, I think that's really why more and more we need to educate so that people understand that that's not what's going to happen, and it doesn't have to happen as long as you get the training, and that training is possible. But I don't know, that was just a really, I just got that strong sense that, oh, I think I sort of get it a little bit more than I've gotten it or in a little bit of a different way than I've gotten it before.
Anil Lewis: That's very real.
Melissa Riccobono: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Anil Lewis: That was the biggest barrier I faced because it did happen to me. At 25, I was well established, pretty much the core of a lot of other people's support. And when I went blind, all of a sudden they thought I could not be that person anymore.
And I think that's probably why I have to work very hard. The scenario I gave about the bathroom incident, instances that challenge my ability to do something so fundamental that reduces me in somebody's mind like I'm a child. Those are the hardest ones for me to deal with. And that's why I have to be quick and try to do it with the degree of humor so that I don't get angry. Because that's really, my initial response is like, "How dare you? I'm a grown man." That kind of thing. So it's very hard to deal with those, but those are still key. So I agree with you. That is important. And I think that that's again, why this banquet speech is so powerful. Well, I guess I say the philosophy of the Federation is so powerful.
Melissa Riccobono: But the banquet speech too. I mean, the banquet speech just echoed the philosophy in a different way. So happy that you were with us, Ben and Jamie, and I hope that people who are listening are getting to know you two just a little bit better as our new board members. I'm so excited to have you on the Board and just really glad that you could be with us on the Nation's Blind Podcast today so that people could get to know you just a little bit better.
Anil Lewis: And I echo Melissa's statement of how proud I am to have you serving on our National board of directors as well. I think your compassion and your insight and your willingness to really put forth the energy and effort to continue to build the Federation is exemplary.
Ben Dallin: Well, that means a lot coming from both of you. I really appreciate it. I'm excited to contribute and to learn from you both. And of course, actually all of everyone on here, Jamie, Anil, Melissa and get involved and learn and grow, and I'm excited for the opportunity. So thanks for the invite.
Jamie Richey: Yes, I appreciate the invite to have us come on and participate in the podcast and hope that we can do it again soon. And I know that Ben and I both have some pretty big shoes to fill coming from Wisconsin and Nebraska. We've had quite a few people on the Board from those states before. So I'm excited to take this next step in the Federation and to be a part of the Board and to attend my first inboard meeting here coming up soon.
Anil Lewis: Absolutely. You both are going to love it. And as President Riccobono says, "Let's go build the National Federation of the Blind. And until then, remember, you can live the life you want."
Melissa Riccobono: Blindness is not what holds you back.
(Ad) President Riccobono: Thank you to HumanWare and our anonymous donors for supporting this year's end of year giving campaign to make sure that into the future, we can continue to empower blind people to live the lives they want and to fulfill this key recipe for success.
(Ad) Speaker 9: Build the recipe to live the life you want and double your dollars. Give online at nfb.org/donate, mail a check to National Federation of the Blind, 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, Maryland 21230. Contribute by phone by calling (410) 659-9314, extension 2430. Thank you for your support. National Federation of the Blind. Live the life you want.
Announcer: We'd love your feedback. Email [email protected] or call (410) 659-9314, extension 2444.