Voiceover:
Welcome to the Nation's Blind Podcast presented by the National Federation of the Blind. The transformative membership and advocacy organization of Blind Americans. Live the life you want.
Anil Lewis:
Hello and welcome to the Nation's Blind Podcast. I am Anil Lewis, and I am joined with my fantastic co-host, Melissa Riccobono.
Chris Danielsen:
No, I'm afraid I'm not Melissa Riccobono. This is Chris Danielsen, but if you're sitting there going, "Oh, I'm so disappointed. I don't get to hear Melissa." Well, you will get to hear Melissa in this episode. I'm just pinch hitting for her in the intro and outro.
Anil Lewis:
Oh, beautiful. And I just want you to know I'm not disappointed. Although I love working with Melissa, it's always good to work with you, Chris. So, welcome back to the Nation's Blind Podcast, the hard work we do here for the federation.
Chris Danielsen:
Thank you, Anil, and it's always a pleasure to work with you as well. And so, now, that we got our little love fest over with it, it's the holidays we have to have. We have to have love and-
Anil Lewis:
Joy.
Chris Danielsen:
Yeah. Joy going around. And there is a joyful thing happening. It's not necessarily the biggest development in the world, but it's cool-
Anil Lewis:
But is great.
Chris Danielsen:
Yes, it is. It's great. As a matter of fact, I believe when our presenter presented about this at the convention, wasn't he in a Tony the Tiger...
Anil Lewis:
That's what I heard. It wasn't audio described for me until afterwards, but yes, I heard that he was actually in a Tony the Tiger outfit. We of course are talking about Kellogg's, ladies and gentlemen,
Chris Danielsen:
The maker of so many of our favorite breakfast cereals.
Anil Lewis:
That I grew up on absolutely. Frosted Flakes, that whole litany. Yes.
Chris Danielsen:
Yep. Frosted Flakes and Corn Flakes and Rice Krispies, Snap, Crackle and Pop. They were my buddies.
Anil Lewis:
You're taking me back. You're taking-
Chris Danielsen:
Exactly.
Anil Lewis:
So, what are we talking about Kellogg's for? They got an accessible cereal for us, do they?
Chris Danielsen:
Yeah, it's completely accessible cereal. Rice Krispies always had the audio.
Anil Lewis:
And then, very nice.
Chris Danielsen:
Exactly, that was good.
Anil Lewis:
Ahead of the game, right?
Chris Danielsen:
Yeah, exactly. But what we have now is an accessible packaging solution from Kellogg's. And some of you may remember that this was introduced at convention, this was discussed, and maybe some of you got a chance to try out the technology because it's not labeling... Well, it is a label directly on the packaging, but you access it with a free app called NaviLens through your iPhone, and you'll actually hear a demonstration of this technology today if you did not get to experience it at convention.
Anil Lewis:
Awesome. I think Melissa had the opportunity to interview a chief accessibility representative of Kellogg's.
Chris Danielsen:
Beth Foor is her name.
Anil Lewis:
Beth Foor, exactly. And they also have from what I understand, have an employee resource group called Kapable. So, it's nice that they're creating an infrastructure at Kellogg's that allows their employees with disabilities voices to be heard. And I think that that's when innovative ideas like this emerge and then, it really moves the products to a place where they're going to be best in class. So, I'm looking forward to hearing the interview.
Chris Danielsen:
Well, let's get right to it then. Here is Melissa with Beth Foor of Kellogg's.
Melissa Riccobono:
You're listening to the Nation's Blind Podcast. I'm Melissa Riccobono, and I am here with Beth Foor from Kellogg's. Good morning, Beth. How are you?
Beth Foor:
Good morning, Melissa. It's great to be here with you.
Melissa Riccobono:
Well, thank you so much for being here with us. I'm very excited to talk with you about all the things that Kellogg's is doing to improve accessibility. Do you want to just let me know what your role at Kellogg's is right now?
Beth Foor:
Sure, happy to. So, I am part of the global internal communication team at Kellogg, but I also have the privilege of serving as one of the national co-chairs of Kapable, which is our business employee resource group at Kellogg, so I kind of wear two hats in that way.
Melissa Riccobono:
Fantastic. And I'm sure we're going to talk a little bit more about Kapable as we go on. Why don't we go backward and talk a little bit about you so that our listeners get to know a little bit more about you and your own journey personally with hearing and vision loss and your journey with Kellogg's and whatever else you'd like to share.
Beth Foor:
So, I was born with Usher Syndrome, which many of your listeners probably know it's a combination of both hearing loss and vision loss. And so, I was born with a severe hearing loss and I've worn hearing aids my entire life. And when I was younger, that was back before they mainstream most students. And so, I actually went to a special school for hearing impaired children and at that school, they had an area for blind students and then they had an area for children who were hearing impaired or death as well as other disabilities. You don't see that today. The students are mainstreamed right into the public school but that's how I started in school. And I actually... Because my hearing loss was so significant and I had gotten so far behind in my language development and things, the doctors actually told my parents when I was young that I would probably never graduate from high school. And if I did, I would only achieve about a fourth grade reading level.
Thankfully, I have amazing parents who refused to accept that and they tried to provide as many opportunities as they could for me. And I will mention my brother and sister also have Usher's syndrome, and so, for all three of us, my parents are both have normal vision and normal hearing. So, it wasn't something they were familiar with, but they did everything they could to provide us opportunities in what we needed to succeed. And I will say that I proved that doctor wrong. I went on and graduated from high school with honors, but when I was in junior high, another doctor actually diagnosed me with retinitis pigmentosa. And it was at that point I found out that I actually have Usher syndrome and that was what was causing the hearing loss.
So, late in high school and certainly into my college years, I started to experience symptoms of the vision loss where I started to notice issues with seeing at night. I had to stop driving at night and my peripheral vision was starting to slowly close in while I was in college. But I did go on and I graduated from college with honors, and I got a degree in business and I spent some time working in both the healthcare industry and also, the pharmaceutical industry even though I was experiencing vision loss and still dealing with the hearing loss that I had had since birth.
Later on, I went on and I got my MBA degree, and it was at the time that I had completed my MBA degree that I applied for a position with Kellogg in their communications area. So, I have been with Kellogg now for four years. It's been an amazing experience and I will tell you Kellogg is the wonderful place to work for people with disabilities. It's a very inclusive environment. They're very accommodating with whatever I need to succeed.
The people that I work with are just so encouraging and so supportive, and I think that helped me to do even better just like the parents that I had when I was young that supported me and encouraged me. It's great to work in an environment with people that support you and encourage you.
Melissa Riccobono:
Yes, absolutely, and what a story. Thank you for sharing your whole story, and I hope that you and your parents have been able to go back to that doctor and tell that doctor a thing or two, maybe you have it, and maybe that's just my desire for some "Ha ha, I proved your wrong" moments, but I think-
Beth Foor:
Yeah, I'll send him a copy of this podcast.
Melissa Riccobono:
Please do. I just-
Beth Foor:
Let him know what I'm doing today. Yeah,
Melissa Riccobono:
... Yeah. That's a whole another topic for a whole other episode, but I really get upset when doctors or any professionals completely discount kids, especially young kids, and just say, "This is all they're ever going to be Kapable of when..." How do they know? And parents make all the difference. So, thank you for sharing that with us. So, now you've been working with Kellogg, and why don't you now talk about what Kapable is, what it does, and your role with that?
Beth Foor:
Sure. And so, you just mentioned that people with disabilities are Kapable of so much more and if we have the right environment and the right support. And so at Kellogg, we have several different business employee resource groups for employees and Kapable, and that's spelled with a K for the Kellogg K is our business employee resource group for people with disabilities and supporter. And as I mentioned at the beginning, I have the privilege of serving as one of the national co-chairs for Kapable. And so, within Kapable, we focus on both mental health disabilities and physical health disabilities. So, we have employees who have disabilities with both. And as we know going through the pandemic and other things, mental health has really become an important topic to talk about, and so, we're able to support in both areas. And we work very hard to support in both areas.
Melissa Riccobono:
Wow, that's wonderful. And again, I think that just highlights what you were saying before about Kellogg being such an inclusive place to work and such a supportive place to work. And that does help you, and I'm sure all the other employees do their best because they're feeling supported and heard, and they have a place to go to talk about or get answers to different issues that they might be having due to their disabilities. That's wonderful.
Beth Foor:
Absolutely.
Melissa Riccobono:
So, was it Kapable that helped develop this NaviLens project or is that just a side job that... or a side part of your job that you do? Because I know Kellogg has something called NaviLens, and we'd love to hear about that, and we'd love you to also to demonstrate it, but I'm just wondering if that came out of work of Kapable, or if it's just a side thing that Kellogg decided that it needed to do to make it packaging more accessible for everyone.
Beth Foor:
Yes. We'd love to explain further how this idea came to be. So, within our business employee resource groups including Kapable, we have three main areas of focus, marketplace, the workplace and the community. And so, within the marketplace, many of your listeners will remember a few years ago we had Rice Krispies treat Love Notes with Braille stickers, and that was something that we partnered with the NFB on when that idea came from Kapable. And then, we also partner with some of our other brands. Kellogg is a large food company, and so, we have many of our iconic cereal brands, but we have Eggo, and Pop-Tarts and Cheez-Its and Pringles and RXBar and just a wide range of products. And so, we partner with the brands where it makes sense.
So, another example is with the month of November, we did a partnership of November activation with Pringles, which is something that focuses on men's mental health. And so, those are some of the different ways in the marketplace.
And then in the workplace, Kapable partners with our facilities teams on how to make our workplaces more accessible. And so, we worked with them on a number of initiatives. We also partner with our total reward team on benefits. And so, something that I'm very proud of in the last two years, we enhance their hearing aid benefit, which many employers don't-
Melissa Riccobono:
Lovely.
Beth Foor:
... Yeah. Many employers don't even cover hearing aids, and so, that was great. And we also have significantly in this past year enhance our mental health benefits. So, that's another area within the workplace that Kapable helps out.
And then, one other thing Kapable has done is our Lean On Me program. And so, it's a mental health program that we've started in the workplace where our employees can be trained in mental health first aid. Employees can identify when another and a colleague might be experiencing mental health distress and help connect them to the appropriate resources. So, that's been a really important program that we've done. And then, we also do some things with communities. So, we partner with organizations that support individuals with disabilities in the communities where we both live and work.
And so, through those three areas that we focus on, the one being marketplace, there was several of us within Kapable a few years ago that sat down and we started discussing how can we make our packaging more accessible to the blind community. And of course, with me, being part of that blind community, it was something very near and dear to my heart. And so, we presented this idea, we started with the serial category, and we presented this idea to our serial leadership team and said, "This is something that we would like to do." It was something our Europe team had done, but this NaviLens technology is new to the US. The technology was started in Europe. It's used more widely in Europe, but it's fairly new to the United States. And so, we brought this idea forward and we said, "We want to do this in the United States too. We think this will be a great way to make our packaging more accessible." And so, we are proud to be the first food company to use this NaviLens technology on our packaging.
Many of your listeners are probably familiar with a QR code. And so, it's similar to a QR code and it's something that you scan. But the nice thing is where a QR code, you have to scan directly on it. This is, it's an optical smart code, and it uses high contrasting color squares on a black background, and you don't have to scan right on it. As long as you're within a few feet radius of the code and it can be up to 160 degree angle, it will pick it up and read it to you. It works in low light and it's very, very quick.
So, I have a box of Special K here in my office with me. So, before I demonstrate it, I should say that there's two different apps and they're both free that users can download. There's the NaviLens app and there's the NaviLens Go app. And so, the NaviLens app is for blind users that need the information read allowed to them. The NaviLens Go app is for cited users or also low vision users that may not want the information read audibly, but they want it displayed in their phone in a way that they can read it.
So, for someone like me, I would be considered with low vision, it's hard for me to read that packaging information. A lot of the prints pretty small for someone like me, but I have my phone settings to contrast on size, things like that set in a way that I can read it.
For purposes of this demonstration, I'm going to go ahead and use the NaviLens app. So, all you do is you have the app open on your phone, and as you're walking down the store aisle, it will pick up and read to you all the different codes that it's picking up. And so, since I'm demonstrating on Special K, if it's Special K that I'm looking for, once I hear Special K read to me, I click on that. It will give me more information on the packaging. I can either hear the full details of all the allergen information, the packaging information, things like that, or I can just skip ahead to filter and locate, and it will actually locate it on the store shelves for me using vibrations and sound to locate it. And will also tell me that it's 15 inches on the right or on the left. And it helps direct me. For someone with low vision who can see a little bit of their phone screen, it has a very large arrow that keeps moving and directing you so you can actually locate it on the store shell.
So, let me go ahead and open up my app now. The NaviLens app, and I'm not scanning directly on the package. I just moving.
iOS VoiceOver:
Kellogg's Special K breakfast cereal. 11 vitamins and minerals made with folic acid, B vitamins and fiber. Family size, original, 18 ounces box.
Beth Foor:
And so, that's why as I'm walking down the store aisle, if that was the only one, it would read all of the information, but it will pick up the one that's closest. But if you hear that's okay, but Rice Krispies you're looking for, you just keep moving. And then, when you hear the Rice Krispies, you can click on it, and it will help you locate it on the store shelves.
Melissa Riccobono:
Wow. I did not know that helped you. I knew it gave you packaging information. I had no idea that it also helped in the location of the products on a store shelf. That's pretty cool technology, and I love that it's more about getting the code close. I've been so frustrated sometimes not just with QR codes, but also with barcodes. Sometimes trying to find barcodes on boxes to get nutritional information that has been, or just even packaging information has been incredibly frustrating. So, that is really cool technology.
Beth Foor:
Right.
Melissa Riccobono:
Wow.
Beth Foor:
Yeah.
Melissa Riccobono:
So, how many products have this? Is it just cereals right now that have this packaging?
Beth Foor:
So, we're starting it on four of our most loved cereal brands. We're starting it on Corn Flakes, Rice Krispies, Special K Original and Crispix, and those can be found on store shelves now.
Melissa Riccobono:
Wow. Excellent. And if people like this technology or have feedback, is there a way to give that feedback to Kellogg or to help Kellogg know, "Yes, we want this," and on more packaging in the future?
Beth Foor:
Sure, we would encourage that. So, on all of our packaging, there's consumer affairs contact information, both email and phone number, and we would love to hear your positive feedback. It does help us to shape our decisions and know what's working and what's not, so we welcome that feedback.
Melissa Riccobono:
Fantastic. Anything else that we should know about Kellogg or about this technology or the things that it can do or the things that you'd like it to do in the future?
Beth Foor:
As I mentioned, we're the first food company to put this on packaging. This technology was actually started as a navigation tool for using in the train stations and airports and things like that.
Melissa Riccobono:
Got it. Okay. That makes total sense.
Beth Foor:
Right. And so, as I mentioned, we're the first food company to put this on packaging, so we think that this has the potential to provide more accessibility to the blind community with that. So, what I would say is that this falls under our better day's promise. And so, Kellogg is looking for a lot of different ways that how we can create better days for people. And this is one of the ways that we are making the food more accessible to people, and is part of our commitment to equity, diversity, and inclusion and creating better days for 3 billion people by the end of 2030.
So, I'm very proud to work for Kellogg, and I'm proud to work for a company who prioritizes this, and who takes ideas that a business employee resource group and says, "Hey, we think this is important. We think this is something that the blind community would benefit from." And they embrace that idea and they say yes, and here we are with it on store shelve.
Melissa Riccobono:
I mean, what a great thing. And just like in so many other areas, when something is accessible for people that happen to be blind or have low vision, they're often more accessible for other people. I'm thinking about seniors who just don't see as well as they used to. And if they can be taught to use an app like this, it might help them very much either locating, maybe they don't need help locating it on the shelves, but maybe they have a health condition and they really need to know the nutritional information. And like you said that print can be really small, not just for somebody who maybe has a diagnosed visual impairment, but just for lots of different people also cross sections of society.
So, total disclosure, I'm blind, but I also have chronic fatigue syndrome. And part of the treatment that I'm doing right now for my chronic fatigue means that I have to look very carefully or should look. I don't always do quite as well as I should probably, but I need to look carefully at what I'm eating because I'm really trying to avoid a lot of sugar and spikes in sugar because that really makes my energy go up and down in ways that aren't helpful. And so, I've been very happy whenever I have found an app that makes it easy for me to see things like grams of sugar, added sugar, serving size, all of that, that puts that all in one place. So, I really applaud Kellogg for doing what you're doing to make this information so much easier to come by, not just for me, but for many, many other people.
And I really do believe that things that are made for people who are blind or low vision have ripple effects for other people in general society. So, I think this is great technology, and I'm just so excited that I was able to talk to you today and learn a little bit more about it. And I bet our listeners are excited about it too.
Beth Foor:
Well, it's been a great privilege to partner with the National Federation of the Blind on a number of different things, and we're thankful for the privilege to be able to talk to you. And I would encourage all of your listeners to download the NaviLens app or the NaviLens Go app and go to your local store and look for these four brands. And again, it's Crispix, Corn Flake, Special K Original, and Rice Krispies that they can find it on packaging now.
Melissa Riccobono:
On packaging now. Fantastic. Beth Foor, thank you so much for taking the time and being with us today and a great success to you and the rest of your hopefully very long career with Kellogg and with the Kapable group and great work with everything that you're doing.
Beth Foor:
Thank you, Melissa.
Melissa Riccobono:
Thank you.
Anil Lewis:
You're listening to the Nation's Blind Podcast where we talk about all of the dynamic programming of the National Federation of the Blind. It's thanks to the gracious donations of listeners like you that we're able to continue to make it possible for blind people to live the lives we want. If you'd like to support our work and help us reach our end-of-year goal, consider making a donation by visiting nfb.org/donate, mailing a check to National Federation of the Blind, 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, Maryland 21230, or giving us a call at 410-659-9314, extension 2430. If you've already made a contribution to support the organized blind movement, we thank you. And thank you for listening to the Nation's Blind Podcast.
Chris Danielsen:
This is really exciting. It's a high-tech solution to the problem, and we like other solutions as well, lower tech solutions, but this is neat because what I think is great about it is that you can get all the information that's on the box. You can get the nutritional information and all the information that you would want about these cereals, and that's what I think is really great because-
Anil Lewis:
Agreed.
Chris Danielsen:
... there's a lot of information on food packaging that we don't normally have access to.
Anil Lewis:
Exactly. And you refer to it as a high-tech solution. I think that in today's world, this is really the low-tech solution because it's not just something that we, as blind people will be using, this is technology that everybody's going to be using because the manufacturers are going to be able to put much more dynamic information in play for every consumer. And with the fact that Kellogg's is ahead of the game implementing this technology, making sure that it's accessible for blind people, when it becomes the de facto way that people shop in person, et cetera, then we will automatically have access to it. So, I'm excited about it.
Chris Danielsen:
Yeah, I am too. I think it'll be fantastic. I'm looking forward to having my Rice Krispies with a side of NaviLens.
Anil Lewis:
Buh dump bump.
Chris Danielsen:
There he go.
Anil Lewis:
So, he’s with us all episode.
Chris Danielsen:
Yeah, right, exactly. But let's move on and talk about... It's almost the end of 2022, Anil, I can't-
Anil Lewis:
This has been a great year 2022, man. I mean, this is the first year that it's actually... It's been all 12 months. It's been highs and lows. It's been good feelings and bad feelings. It's just so refreshing. I don't want to call it that it's normal, but it's just been so refreshing that this year has been plagued with what you would normally consider the challenges that we face, but nothing so overwhelming that we couldn't deal with it in grace and also, still have those joyful moments to make life worth living. I'm looking forward to 2023 on the back of this one. I think that 2023 is going to be that much better.
Chris Danielsen:
Well, I think so too. And of course, we got to experience all of the things that happened this year together. We got to be in person a lot more, and there are so many highlights. I know for you and me both, a personal highlight was being there for the Blind Driver Challenge, and-
Anil Lewis:
Oh, man, that was awesome.
Chris Danielsen:
... there was also convention in New Orleans.
Anil Lewis:
Yes, sir.
Chris Danielsen:
And we've got a lot to look forward to in 2023 in the federation. Washington seminars coming up right away, and so all of those things.
Anil Lewis:
Another in-person national convention in Houston, Texas, and so many more things. I'm so glad we're going to have more in-person programming. We're going to be able to get out more to our affiliates and do more stuff dynamically in person. I'm just pumped. Come on 2023. Come on.
Chris Danielsen:
Yeah. Let's have it. Let's bring it on. Do you have a personal resolution for 2023?
Anil Lewis:
Bigger and better in 2023, one of the things that I'm really focusing on personally is trying to make sure that I learn this new language that we're all speaking to make sure that I can interact with people in a way that doesn't unintentionally offend, which has been interesting, but also in line with that, it gives me the opportunity to learn more about diverse lived experiences in a way that will allow me to not be unintentionally biased around individuals.
It's really been an exciting journey to learn these little nuances. Some part, I have to be honest, has been pretty frustrating because some of the things that I would have never thought would've been offensive, are offensive, and sometimes it's just not finding any real parallels that can make things definitely appropriate here. Really quickly, I'll throw this out.
I just had a trip to Vancouver, British Columbia, and they have a very good commitment to representing their authentic indigenous peoples that was settled there first, but I did not know that in Vancouver, British Columbia, using the word Eskimo is a derogatory term.
Chris Danielsen:
Oh, really?
Anil Lewis:
It's using the word Eskimo in Alaska is accepted. So, it is just those types of things. It's nuance, but it's interesting and I'm accepting the challenge of trying to expand my boundaries of understanding so that I can be able to interact productively with so many different people.
Chris Danielsen:
That is a really good resolution, and I will try to join you in that because I think it is really important. There's a lot of talk about this kind of thing, and people grumble about political correctness or whatever, but it's really just about respecting other people's identities to me. Yeah. And just like I wouldn't change your name, your personal name, I'm not going to call you Fred when your name is Anil. Why would I call somebody else by a name or by an identity that-
Anil Lewis:
That doesn't appreciate or respect. Yeah.
Chris Danielsen:
... Right. That doesn't speak to who they are. So, that's a great resolution. So, I like that, and I'm going to personally try to get back into some things, some self-care things and things that I'm personally passionate about other than the federation, which of course I'm very passionate about. And that will continue to be a big part of my life, but-
Anil Lewis:
Well, good.
Chris Danielsen:
... I'm hoping to spend some more time practicing the piano and singing and get back into some musical things that I've done in the past.
Anil Lewis:
The world needs more Chris Danielsen singing and performing. Yes, that is correct. Good for you.
Chris Danielsen:
That's very kind of you. I don't know how many podcast listeners will agree with you if they heard me singing but-
Anil Lewis:
We'll have to do a podcast and have you do some music for the podcast, that'd be awesome. Then, they will know what I'm talking about.
Chris Danielsen:
All right, well, that sounds like it might be a plan. So, anyway, we'd like to know what you are excited about for the new-
Anil Lewis:
Absolutely.
Chris Danielsen:
... year or if you're making a resolution, what your resolution is. But you don't have to make a resolution. Just tell us what you are excited about for 2023. Whether it's something in the federation or something new. Maybe you're going to do a new challenge as for yourself as a blind person. Take a trip somewhere you haven't been or something like that. Why don't you tell us about it? Why don't you give us a call? We'd love it if you give us a call, because then, we can play back your voicemail with-
ANIL L:
Well, there you go.
Chris Danielsen:
... permission, of course. But you can give us a call at 410-659-9314, extension 2444.
ANIL LEWIS:
That'd be awesome. Awesome. But there's other ways to contact us that's in the out notes that you'll hear as we close. But just want you guys to know that we appreciate you. We love that you have been on this journey with us, and hopefully you'll continue on this journey. So, until the next Nation's Blind Podcast. Just remember, you can live the life you want.
Chris Danielsen:
Blindness is not what holds you back.
Voiceover:
We'd love your feedback. Email [email protected] or call 410-659-9314, extension 2444.